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 Post subject: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:58 am 0 
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This is Change in the Netherlands:

A total ban on magic mushrooms (effective from 1 december 2008):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7041961.stm

Proposed closing of all coffeeshops by 2010 (already a reality in some border towns):
http://www.cloggie.org/wissewords/index ... eshops.txt

Proposed closing of the Red Light (already a third of the windows have shut down):
http://www.newsweek.com/id/109373?gt1=10856

Closure of the famous Yab Yum brothel (it closed in january of this year):
http://www.simplyamsterdam.nl/news/Excl ... d_down.htm

Likewise the Casa Rosso and the Bananabar:
http://www.simplyamsterdam.nl/news/More ... others.htm

Smoking ban in all restaurants and pubs:
http://nicotine.goingcoldturkey.com/smo ... rlands.php

A Christian Union MP has now proposed to ban smoking in cars as well "to protect the children". To force equality in the law she also wants to enforce it when there are no children in a car.

The blasphemy law was scrapped but instead the discrimination law is strenghtend to cover criticism of religion:
http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/ ... ewsID=3256

As America may become more European-like under Obama (as the WSJ feared) with universal healthcare for everyone and more government influence in the market place, the Netherlands has privatized everything from energy companies, the post service (not even the US post service has been privatized) and made healthcare much more expensive by opening it up to "competition".

Change, Yes We Can! :(

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:08 am 0 
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It looks like some people have just been released out in the wild and wonder what damage they can inflict in their time of power. Pretty bad. I'll miss the smell of grass here on the streets in the summer.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:19 am 0 
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Those crazy Netherlanders.

Good luck.

I personally think that certain public services like health, transport, energy, water etc. should not be privatised. The way a lot of it was done in the UK was borderline criminal. Open certain bits up to limited competition yes by all means.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:39 am 0 
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this fucking sucks :(

could somebody please repost the coffeeshop ban page contents on here for those of us behind crappy websense filters?

they are taking all the fun out of the place. i used to go visit at least twice a year, but recently (since the smoking ban and also since they stopped selling alcohol in most coffeeshops) i just cant be bothered anymore.

not once have i jumped off a building, started a fight, caused trouble from being too drunk, or been so intoxicated that i fall over and end up in hospital.

jsut because theres a few idiots out there, doesnt mean they should spoil it for the rest of us people who respect the tolerance there.

meh :(

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:42 am 0 
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I'd best get my ass into a coffeeshop now then, as I've never been in one yet. Christ - I must ride past about 30 of them on my way into work each morning...

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:02 am 0 
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New proposal by the Christian Union (a fundamentalist Christian party which part of the Dutch government together with the more mainstream Christian Democratic Appeal and the Dutch Labour Party): ban smoking of weed below the age of 21. Well if there are no more coffee shops that ban will be superfluous as you can't legally get marijuana then (incidentilly it has always been illegal to produce the stuff in more than tiny quantities but the sale of it through coffeeshops has been officially condoned up till now). But it shows that the Christian-"Socialist" cabinet is in overdrive now in banning things. :(

The coffeeshop bit, for wanye (it's a blogger's opinion, I couldn't find an English language media article, but it's a serious proposal):

Martin Wisse of cloggie.org wrote:
No more coffeeshops in 2010?

That's what one criminology professor says in an interview (Dutch). Henk van de Bunt, who last year co-wrote a report on the growing of marijuana in the Netherlands and the growing interest organised crime has in it, says continuing foreing pressure as well as this growing criminalisation of softdrugs that will lead to the end of the Dutch tolerance for it. The problem is that while buying and selling softdrugs is tolerated (not legal, just not actively prosecuted), growing it and selling it wholesale isn't. And while growing weed once was done by amateur and homegrowers, organised crime has gotten increasingly involved with it. It's this creeping criminalisation that will be the death of the coffeeshop, according to van de Bunt.

Now there have always been predictions about the end of tolerance as long as this policy has existed, but this time this prediction might be more accurate than usual. In the past decade the Dutch police has become much more aggressive in combatting the growing marijuana, which has driven out the amateurs and hobbyists as they can't take the risks anymore. Meanwhile political pressure, both on council and national level to limit tolerance has increased as well. A few weeks ago for example two councils near border with Belgium decided to close down all coffeeshops in their cities because of troubles caused by drugs tourism, while the current government has pledged to forbid coffeeshops from opening near schools.

This is all part of an unspoken campaign to end tolerance of softdrugs not be explicitely ending it, but by making it so unworkable that it has to be ended. By going after the homegrowers the police has encouraged the spread of organised crime into the cannabis trade, which makes the case for ending tolerance that much easier. You can't argue that ending tolerance will drive the trade udnerground if much of it already is in the hands of the mob anyway. The other prong of this campaign is to put more and more "reasonable" restrictions and demands on coffeeshops, to make it harder to open one or keep one open, death by a thousand cuts. To completely end tolerance has not yet been politically viable, but the van de Bunt is right to think it's not that far off anymore, thanks to this silent campaign.

A better solution would be to legalise softdrugs completely, both retail and wholesale and make the growth of them a state monopoly. Chances of that happening are not so good though...

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:36 am 0 
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DutchLlama wrote:
Smoking ban in all restaurants and pubs:
http://nicotine.goingcoldturkey.com/smo ... rlands.php


To be fair, that's a good change.

There's one more thing the current bunch of idiots have done: they've bankrupted every pharmacy in the land. Or at least they've changed the rules so that even the best run pharmacies are running 25% short of revenue to cover their costs. Not many have closed yet, but that's as the new rules have only been running for 6 months and most have enough money to run until Xmas..

The shareholders from the insurance companies get to pocket the "saved" money of course, there are no reductions to our insurance.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:15 am 0 
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Surely this is going to have a pretty catastrophic effect on tourism? I would imagine the huge swathes of American students aren't there to look at the canals. Or the billions of stag dos etc etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:50 am 0 
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Ryan wrote:
There's one more thing the current bunch of idiots have done: they've bankrupted every pharmacy in the land. Or at least they've changed the rules so that even the best run pharmacies are running 25% short of revenue to cover their costs. Not many have closed yet, but that's as the new rules have only been running for 6 months and most have enough money to run until Xmas..


Crap! Is that what happened? I had a customer lined up who has a small chain of pharmacies in Holland. A couple of months ago he called off the deal for financial reasons - I thought it was just the general downturn or whatever.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:45 pm 0 
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That's sad. The last of the "fun" countries where people were responsible for themselves gets turned into another nanny state. Welcome to our world!

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:52 pm 0 
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Always ask "who benefits most from this?". Especially if it's ostensibly done in the public good (it's the old phallacy- you must agree with everything done "for the public good" otherwise that means you are opposed to safety and any other tacked on concerns and are some kind of misanthrope to be shunned).

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:56 pm 0 
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betamax wrote:
Always ask "who benefits most from this?". Especially if it's ostensibly done in the public good (it's the old phallacy- you must agree with everything done "for the public good" otherwise that means you are opposed to safety and any other tacked on concerns and are some kind of misanthrope to be shunned).

That one doesn't count for kicking money-grubbing politicians out for the public good.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:03 pm 0 
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betamax wrote:
it's the old phallacy


:fnarr:

Yeah, all you really need to do to get any law passed is say "think of the children" or "this will help combat paedophiles / terrorists" and nobody would dare oppose it.

I can see the almost Vulcan level of logic in the changes they're making, but it's still a shame - it's nice to have at least one part of the world which is "dangerous" so to speak, where people are allowed to live a little.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:18 pm 0 
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Cloudane wrote:
betamax wrote:
it's the old phallacy


:fnarr:

.


Wow- I guess I was thinking about cock.

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 Post subject: Re: Change, Dutch style
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:51 pm 0 
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They want to do a Las Vegas cleaning act on Amsterdam to get the family-type tourists in
instead. It'll become very clean and very, very boring.
The number of tourists will still plummet though if the coffee shops disappear.


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