FOOTBALL: Season 2006/07 Discussion Thread

fog · Post by **fog** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:23 pm 0

Sickboy wrote:I know the media like to present that view as a cliche/big club arrogance, but they're just desperately clinging to a romantic ideal that simply doesn't exist any more. Fact is, the FA Cup is only attractive to sides who don't stand much chance of winning anything else.

...

The Carling Cup and FA Cup should only be eligible to teams who didn't qualify for the Champion's League. Then, there'd be a genuine chance of a leftfield side coming in and winning the things. (I think, since Wimbledon's win, the FA Cup has been routinely passed around a tiny clique of top-tier clubs).

But surely the fact the top clubs do routinely win the FA Cap points to the fact that they do take it seriously and do want to win it?

If LFC didn't care then why put out such a strong side yesterday and risk injury and suspension?

Governmentyard · Post by **Governmentyard** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:46 pm 0

Well the yardstick is the League, FA Cup and Champion's League treble Utd have got, so I'd say cup successs puts you a third of the way there. The easy third, in some ways and the hardest third in others.

Portland · Post by **Portland** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:51 pm 0

Nil nil, but we're all over them like a cheap suit.

There was a stat on radio 5 earlier about this. Seems at least one of 6 clubs has been in the final for the last 20+ years. You only tend to get giant slaying these days when the top sides field weakened teams.

Zen-Chan · Post by **Zen-Chan** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:52 pm 0

Larsson is still looking sharp in his old age . . .

Portland · Post by **Portland** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:56 pm 0

Zen-Chan wrote:Larsson is still looking sharp in his old age . . .

I laughed like a drain when we got him on a freebie.

Acronym · Post by **Acronym** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:03 pm 0

Dunfermline Athletic 3 - Forces of Darkness 2, Scottish Cup 3rd round.

GET. THE FUCK. IN. We're getting relegated, so small victories matter.

Portland · Post by **Portland** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:11 pm 0

Acronym wrote:Dunfermline Athletic 3 - Forces of Darkness 2, Scottish Cup 3rd round.

GET. THE FUCK. IN. We're getting relegated, so small victories matter.

My brother in law is doing roflcopters right now. He moved to Manc' with work about 30 years ago, but still makes the trek for every old firm game he can.

Sickboy · Post by **Sickboy** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:32 pm 0

Gorecki wrote:
Sickboy wrote:(I think, since Wimbledon's win, the FA Cup has been routinely passed around a tiny clique of top-tier clubs).
But that's pretty much the same as the league, isn't it? It's far more indicative of the state of English football than it is of the FA Cup on it's own.

I guess, but I was really referring to all the guff about the 'romance' of the FA Cup - something that's less and less credible as all the money and power continues to trickle up to the top clubs.

I suppose it's different from the league because, if Arsenal have a bad day against Watford, that's all it is over the course of 38 games - a bad day. Switch off against Kidderminster Harriers away in the FA Cup, though, and there's no chance to make up the shortfall. It's a 'giant-killing'.

Much as it pains me to admit it, Wimbledon's shock win over Liverpool was the last real illustration that knockout cup football is more about guts and hunger than sheer spending power.

No sour grapes, here. Arsenal outwitted and outplayed us, hands down. And I realise that Liverpool put out a strong team. That's because Rafa's not stupid and we were playing Arsenal.

And not, say, Burton Albion.

GeeZa · Post by **GeeZa** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:33 pm 0

Sickboy wrote:Much as it pains me to admit it, Wimbledon's shock win over Liverpool was the last real illustration that knockout cup football is more about guts and hunger than sheer spending power.

Yeah, but I honestly don't see that much has changed. If you look at the results from 1970 onwards, the winners of the FA Cup have always generally been the big clubs (as you pointed out). Wimbledon were an exception but even they were First Division at the time and finished 7th. They were a bit agricultural but a very solid team. What's more interesting is what's going on before the final, the 5th round to the semis if you like.

Upsets have always taken place during the competition and that's why it's so fantastic. I don't think there is anything more exciting than a nowhere club taking Man Utd on at their own ground and the whole country willing them on. And it's *always* been that way. If there is one thing that's worth caring about in English football it's the FA Cup. That's why when Man Utd opted out that year I thought they either simply should have been forced to play or punished with major point deductions etc. Interestingly many fans were opposed to them opting out which is the way it should be. League football, especially for the lesser clubs is a little more than a slog, and so this is the chance for them to make some money and give the hardcore fans a real national event. The FA Cup is like a once-a-year party where everyone gets an invite and if big-club cynicism is intent on killing that then you might as well cancel football for all I care.

fog · Post by **fog** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:59 pm 0

Great post GeeZa.

The magic of the cup is very much alive and the straight knockout format is as exciting as football gets. (And one of the reasons why European competitions with their money making group stages get more and more boring by the year.)

Absolute_Zero · Post by **Absolute_Zero** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:00 pm 0

Sunderland in 1973... Wycombe Wanderers nearly made the final in 2001 etc.

Dio · Post by **Dio** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:07 am 0

Exactly. To be honest, a final between two 'big' teams is a good thing for the cup because the final should be a 'big' game.

But a smattering of comical exits and a lot of big-hearted scrapping that leaves every team with hearts in mouths is also a good thing.

By the 'no crappy team ever wins' argument, you might as well argue for a 10-team Premiership. Or a 4-team one.

Sickboy · Post by **Sickboy** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:45 am 0

Yeah, like everyone else, of course I root for Burton when they host Man Utd. It's a head, not heart, thing. Doesn't mean that level (if a tad 'heavy') playing fields aren't evolving out of the game.

I guess I'm just a bit tipsy on history. Just desperate for Liverpool to win the fucking league again.

PaulEMoz · Post by **PaulEMoz** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:53 am 0

We were disappointed at Liverpool's exit, I have to say. We've adopted them as our second team, and I like to see them lifting trophies as it makes me think of how happy that made my brother.

So we're getting a bit perplexed by Benitez. Things seem to be stagnating a little at Liverpool, from this faraway viewpoint, and the team spirit doesn't seem the best. And I still think they need to improve in a few positions, too. Maybe it's the takeover talk that's unsetlling people.

Speaking of which, I wish some fucker would either come forward and announce their intentions with our lot, or just piss off.

goldfish · Post by **goldfish** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:32 am 0

Just watched the highlights of the Forest/Charlton game... I think Charlton would've made Yeading look world class, but definitely some encouraging signs from Forest too...

Better than the Salisbury game, at least...

Simon