Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[gumboot]

Banking... you lean into a turn and experience net acceleration which, broadly, gives the impression that you're still upright when you're not.

So what's the VR take on this? Since you can't subject the player to alternative accelerations, does this imply that the simulated acceleration must be factored in to compute 'level' relative to the absolute orientation of the display? Is there an established best practice, or are people still just hacking?

[gilesgoat]

Banking... you lean into a turn and experience net acceleration which, broadly, gives the impression that you're still upright when you're not.

So what's the VR take on this? Since you can't subject the player to alternative accelerations, does this imply that the simulated acceleration must be factored in to compute 'level' relative to the absolute orientation of the display? Is there an established best practice, or are people still just hacking?

Well .. I think it's fair to say that "think about it, all you have is ONLY a display" .. it's not a flight simulator, you cannot create accelerations or such.

It's NOT that you can replicate "anything or RL" into VR, VR is still VIRTUAL reality as in "as close as possible as tech allows but it's not the real thing".

The key here is trying to find ways to create a "satisfying similar to something your mind would expect experience" .. with .. "whatever it takes" it's like a magician show, what you see it's FAR from real but looks and can feel like it's real ..

A lot of these questions still don't have answers nor optimal answers .. there's still a lot to discover and experiment.

[KlaxonCow]

What's possibly needed is something like this:



So that when the virtual orientation changes, the gyroscope spins you around, in order that your sense of balance (and kinesthetic sense of oneself) properly corresponds to what you're seeing.

Also, if you're held around the middle somehow, so you can freely move your arms and legs, then you could have that fully immersive experience of being able to walk and run on the spot (below your feet there could be a platform that can be raised and lowered to act as the "floor", perhaps?) and wield your gun controller or whatever.

(I have no idea how you'd fake acceleration / deceleration, unless someone invents one of those artificial gravity machines that you see on Star Trek. Acceleration and gravity are indistinguishable, so if only you could play with gravity, you could fake acceleration, without actually moving someone. But that seems a rather unlikely technology to be invented any time soon, so we'll file that as a "currently unsolvable" problem for the time being, I think.)

Well, there you go, there's an expensive Kickstarter project for someone to start up...

[Harlequin]

[Portland]

What's possibly needed is something like this:



So that when the virtual orientation changes, the gyroscope spins you around, in order that your sense of balance (and kinesthetic sense of oneself) properly corresponds to what you're seeing.

Also, if you're held around the middle somehow, so you can freely move your arms and legs, then you could have that fully immersive experience of being able to walk and run on the spot (below your feet there could be a platform that can be raised and lowered to act as the "floor", perhaps?) and wield your gun controller or whatever.

(I have no idea how you'd fake acceleration / deceleration, unless someone invents one of those artificial gravity machines that you see on Star Trek. Acceleration and gravity are indistinguishable, so if only you could play with gravity, you could fake acceleration, without actually moving someone. But that seems a rather unlikely technology to be invented any time soon, so we'll file that as a "currently unsolvable" problem for the time being, I think.)

Well, there you go, there's an expensive Kickstarter project for someone to start up...

Are OR's wipe clean then?

[Darkflame]

(I have no idea how you'd fake acceleration / deceleration, unless someone invents one of those artificial gravity machines that you see on Star Trek. Acceleration and gravity are indistinguishable, so if only you could play with gravity, you could fake acceleration, without actually moving someone. But that seems a rather unlikely technology to be invented any time soon, so we'll file that as a "currently unsolvable" problem for the time being, I think.)

My understanding of traditional simulator rides is you can fake the feel of acceleration "close enough" by small jerks (that is, acceleration of acceleration). Apparently when you have other sensory things telling the body its moving, this sort of thing is enough to infer to it that you have started moving.
I suspect, however, this works more for "roller-coaster ride" style movement faking, rather then more subtle things.

[Yak]

[Sir_LANs-a-lot]

Konix really need a Kickstarter to revive those in conjunction with this new push for VR!

[Whiteball]

Years ago I would have looked at that picture and said "Wow, just look at that chair!"


...Now I look at it and say "Wow, just look at that TV!"

[Mqark]

Konix really need a Kickstarter to revive those in conjunction with this new push for VR!

I strongly suspect a Konix Kickstarter would have been like all those ones that fail to deliver on the promise of what they offer.

Any chance of an interview for my website Jeff? Go on - you'll make an old geek very happy and I'm sure a LOT of people would like to hear your side of the story in full.

I'll come to you, we can go for a curry and I'll buy you many drinks and food for the fluffies!

[gilesgoat]

Konix really need a Kickstarter to revive those in conjunction with this new push for VR!

I strongly suspect a Konix Kickstarter would have been like all those ones that fail to deliver on the promise of what they offer.

Any chance of an interview for my website Jeff? Go on - you'll make an old geek very happy and I'm sure a LOT of people would like to hear your side of the story in full.

I'll come to you, we can go for a curry and I'll buy you many drinks and food for the fluffies!

Like the idea, you can't say no to a curry interview

[gumboot]

Banking... you lean into a turn and experience net acceleration which, broadly, gives the impression that you're still upright when you're not.

So what's the VR take on this? Since you can't subject the player to alternative accelerations, does this imply that the simulated acceleration must be factored in to compute 'level' relative to the absolute orientation of the display? Is there an established best practice, or are people still just hacking?

Well .. I think it's fair to say that "think about it, all you have is ONLY a display" .. it's not a flight simulator, you cannot create accelerations or such.

You can't create accelerations, but you might be able to use the one you start with.

If physics says that the net acceleration on the player is a bit to the left, does that imply that you should tilt the display a bit to the right? This would be to give the impression the real gravity that they feel is in the same direction relative to their view as the net force they should feel in the simulation. However, there's a bunch of second-order stuff which they should feel (the rotation of their body that got them into the bank that they see) which is missing, and maybe this is worse, overall, than gravity pulling in the wrong direction.

[pogo]

Acceleration's an interesting one. I suspect it can be easily faked/fooled in some cases. The reason I think this is I've noticed myself getting it wrong more than once, as I've been effectively fooled, on trains. I've been sitting on a train stopped at a station, with another train stopped alongside, and been sitting nearest to that side. When that train's started to move I've seen and heard it and my brain's been convinced I'm moving, sometimes right up until the moment the train pulls away and the stationary platform appears jarringly behind it.

This probably only happens as trains accelerate so slowly, so it would be no use for racing games and jet fighter simulators. But there are a lot of things that move as slowly; apart from trains things like commercial airliners, electric vehicles. As it's slow, steady and linear it shouldn't induce nausea either. Accelerate for long enough and you can get a nice sense of speed.

[gumboot]

How long does it take for astronauts to become functional? Do they get used to it, or do they just keep trying new astronauts until they find ones who don't get sick?

[pogo]

Astronauts undergo extensive training, including weightless training in special flights and underwater. So any who are susceptible to problems should be weeded out early on, before they're blasted into space.