Politics Thread!

[pogo]

And no it didn't just 'come from the government'. The government initiated contact. Big difference.

That still means it came from the government, not e.g. from journalists interviewing benefit cheats themselves. The government put the information out there but that’s what governments do, all the time. Oddly they sometimes choose to put information out that supports their policies. Normally it’s the job of the opposition to challenge that, but that would need an effective opposition which we’ve not had for a while. And I don’t make a habit of reading the comments on news reports, because they are filled with drivel like that.

[pogo]

Radio 4 have been interviewing people in the surround camps over the last few weeks and a recurrent them has been a want to get to the UK because it's seen as a stepping stone to get to the states.

Thinking on this it sounds like BS. I mean these people are not ignorant of the immigration and refugee rules of the various countries they pass though and hope to enter. Maybe they were when they left their countries of origin but after months travelling they will have picked up everything they want to know. Not least because they will have, since arriving in Europe if not before, had plenty of time to find out everything they need to know, to help them decide where to head to.

How much does coming to the UK help you get to the US? It doesn’t at all. It actually makes their chances worse, under the Green Card lottery as the UK is ineligible to send people, and there are no other ways to apply if you don’t have family there or a job offer. Of course once granted asylum and citizenship they can visit the US, but they could do that in France, now, avoiding the stress, risks and time spent trying to evade Calais security.

If they are genuinely refugees, seeking to escape a country where they faced a well founded fear of persecution, then they have succeeded in fleeing that country. They are refugees and just need to assert their rights as refugees, after which they will be able to travel to the UK. That they aren’t, but are trying to enter the UK for nonsensical reasons, suggests they are not refugees at all. They may apply in the UK to prolong their stay but that is not their reason for coming here; instead they plan to work illegally, taking advantage of our much more relaxed employment rules.

[gravy]

What sounds like BS? That I heard it said a few times during the interviews the BBC carried out?

[(o)(o)]

The "immigration crisis" - another load of total propagnda bullshit.

SEVEN Calais Tory press releases articles in a row on the IOS Daily Mail app today..

[gravy]

To be honest I was a bit like that but I didn't quite understand the how much of a fucker Operation Stack is for some of the Kent locals.

I know it's small beans compared to the problems likely faced by the people trying to get here but it is does have a pretty serious negative affect on the local people and businesses.

[pogo]

What sounds like BS? That I heard it said a few times during the interviews the BBC carried out?

No, not doubting you heard it, but if migrants were giving it as a reason then it is nonsensical. Why give it then? As the real reason is that they plan to work illegally which is much easier here, perhaps.

Why not fix that problem? Successive governments have failed, for I guess two reasons. One as the best tool to do so, a national ID card, seems politically toxic here. And two as they know clamping down hard on firms would just hurt the economy, especially in London, and just generate more poor and desperate migrants here.

[k345y]

Family reunification, English is the spoken language, UK grants a higher proportionate asylum status than it's UK counterparts, positive sociopolitical attitudes, established illegal/underground employment networks, well established illegal/underground communities.

Maybe if I were an illegal immigrant I'd want to come to the UK and not stay put in France.

[VNVObit]

Interest stats on number of asylum seekers per country within Europe

http://www.theguardian.com/world/databl ... um-seekers

UK is 6th with 31,945 and the top 4 countries (Germany, Sweden, Italy & France) all took more than double that (Germany over 6 times the level of the UK) though on 18th if ranked by seekers/ million of population

[pogo]

UK grants a higher proportionate asylum status than it's UK counterparts,

Really?

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics ... B15_IV.png

(sorry you need to select all of that and copy and paste it, as phpbb mangles URLs with non-ASCII chars in them. It's from here)

The UK is about average, other countries are much more generous. The other reasons you give are not valid ones; their personal preferences do not override EU and international law. Certainly wanting to work illegally here is not a valid reason.

[k345y]

Yup it is average, I knew it was around 40% but I had read that was high in proportion but it's on average with Germany etc.

As for the other points not being valid, they can neither be valid nor invalid as they're opinions, not facts. you seem to be fixating on conclusiveness, which no one can work out as to why UK is so attractive to some. I was mearly putting suggestions out there.

[Mayhem]

I'm not sure it does work; I'm talking about the perception of the people risking their life in Calais to try and get here.

Exactly, that's why I was trying to work out in my head how it could even be done full stop. Maybe that's the information that should be disseminated instead heh, "you can't get to the US from the UK!".

[merman]

Here's a maths question, maybe it should have been on that Scottish exam that was too hard for pupils.


Gideon has some shares, which the previous person in his job bought for £5 each.

Gideon decides to sell them to his friends, the hedge fund owners who donate to his party's funding, at £3.30 each.

Calculate how stupid Gideon is.

[pogo]

Yup it is average, I knew it was around 40% but I had read that was high in proportion but it's on average with Germany etc.

As for the other points not being valid, they can neither be valid nor invalid as they're opinions, not facts. you seem to be fixating on conclusiveness, which no one can work out as to why UK is so attractive to some. I was mearly putting suggestions out there.

I understand. My problem is some people think we should have more sympathy for the migrants in/near Calais. But on what basis? If they are refugees then they have already escaped whatever persecution they faced. They should stop running and claim asylum. If they are not refugees they have no need or right to come to the UK.

Coming here won’t help them be accepted as refugees; other countries they can reach more easily are much better. It certainly won’t help them go to the USA. They may have a preference for the UK but that does not override international, EU and UK law.

[(o)(o)]

To be honest I was a bit like that but I didn't quite understand the how much of a fucker Operation Stack is for some of the Kent locals.

I know it's small beans compared to the problems likely faced by the people trying to get here but it is does have a pretty serious negative affect on the local people and businesses.

No doubt it's a problem but doesn't excuse writing sensationalist bullshit day in day out.

There are lessons from history of the outcome of frothing up nationalism and genocidal prejudice.

[merman]

To be honest I was a bit like that but I didn't quite understand the how much of a fucker Operation Stack is for some of the Kent locals.

I know it's small beans compared to the problems likely faced by the people trying to get here but it is does have a pretty serious negative affect on the local people and businesses.

No doubt it's a problem but doesn't excuse writing sensationalist bullshit day in day out.

There are lessons from history of the outcome of frothing up nationalism and genocidal prejudice.

For example, the Daily Mail in 1938 was full of headlines about the "flood of German Jews" invading England...