Football: Season 2004/5 Discussion Thread.

PaulEMoz · Post by **PaulEMoz** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:35 pm 0

Guru-Meditation wrote:PaulEMoz : Argh! Another Ball of Crap Damacy fan!

It's a splendid piece of mad and crazy fun!

Guru-Meditation · Post by **Guru-Meditation** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:07 pm 0

Indeed it is

Decided to play it again today for a bit after seeing your sig

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:20 am 0

PaulEMoz wrote:Just watched the Portsmouth - Man Utd game and it was most enjoyable.

You know, I wouldn't hate them so much if they could just lose every once in a while. Instead, they have to be petulant children about it every single time, and that's what makes watching them lose a pleasure. Sorry Man U. fans, but you know it's true.

You know, it is getting a bit wearing with all the Man Utd bashing on here - especially from you two (SB being the other). Yep, we all know that Utd are arrogant and that Ferguson is the biggest wind-up merchant in the universe, but that is why they have achieved what they have.

What really pisses me off, 'tho, is that this thread was supposed to be a friendly way to discuss football, but you two in particular seem intent intent on Man Utd bashing at every opportunity.

I seem to remember not too long ago in the World Cup thread that SB said that he would never take pleasure in another team losing so, you know, leave it already and keep the place fluffy.

Oh, and Newcastle and Liverpool are crap

Sickboy · Post by **Sickboy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:07 am 0

Zoot wrote:You know, it is getting a bit wearing with all the Man Utd bashing on here - especially from you two (SB being the other). Yep, we all know that Utd are arrogant and that Ferguson is the biggest wind-up merchant in the universe, but that is why they have achieved what they have.

If I were a Utd fan, I'd like to think we'd achieved things on merit - through playing great football, bringing up some excellent young players, building a great team, etc.

Liverpool used to win everything back in the '70s and '80s, but we had a kind of imperiousness - not arrogance. A bit like Arsenal today, teams wanted to beat Liverpool because they were the best. I get the feeling that teams want to beat Man Utd because they're Man Utd - the soulless institution that's more of a business than a football team. See also: Chelsea.

There are just so many reasons to dislike Man Utd - the "Theatre Of Dreams" thing (haha), the aggressively non-localised PLC thing (I saw a Man Utd advent calendar in a North London Woolworth's yesterday, for fuck's sake), the absolute cast-iron cunt of a manager (it is possible to be single-minded and successful and be a funny, affable, decent human-being - look at Cloughie, Shankly, Wenger, Paisley...).

Here's why I (generally) can't stand Man Utd fans... I remember when Arsenal won the Premiership a few seasons ago. There was a radio phone-in with a Man Utd fan...

Presenter: So, you have to admit... Arsenal have been the best team, domestically, this season. They've played some brilliant football and deserved to win the league.
Man Utd Fan: (Pause) You just tell 'em to look after that trophy, 'cos it'll be back at Old Trafford, next season.

But yeah, I mostly hate Man Utd because it's football and it's tribal and I'm a Liverpool fan and, y'know, it's in my nature. What's your excuse, Paul?

What really pisses me off, 'tho, is that this thread was supposed to be a friendly way to discuss football, but you two in particular seem intent intent on Man Utd bashing at every opportunity.

I dunno. You say 'bashing', I say 'banter'. That's what makes football so unique and spicy. Don't take it to heart. Just give some of it back.

I seem to remember not too long ago in the World Cup thread that SB said that he would never take pleasure in another team losing so, you know, leave it already and keep the place fluffy.

It's not taking pleasure in them losing. It's taking pleasure in the way they're so up themselves, they can't lose gracefully, hold up their hands and say yep, we were shit, give credit to the opponents, etc.

Oh, and Newcastle and Liverpool are crap

Aaah. See?

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:24 am 0

I know everything that you say is just because you know in your heart that Liverpool are the THIRD best team in Lancashire now

But, with regards enjoying another team lose,

Paul E Moz wrote:

Just watched the Portsmouth - Man Utd game and it was most enjoyable.

You know, I wouldn't hate them so much if they could just lose every once in a while. Instead, they have to be petulant children about it every single time, and that's what makes watching them lose a pleasure. Sorry Man U. fans, but you know it's true.

In all seriousness, I saw Match of the Day last night, and Cisse looked to be really hurt. It was cringeworthy the way they showed it about ten times too, and I watched them all

Sickboy · Post by **Sickboy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:03 pm 0

Zoot wrote:I know everything that you say is just because you know in your heart that Liverpool are the THIRD best team in Lancashire now

That's the spirit!

In all seriousness, I saw Match of the Day last night, and Cisse looked to be really hurt. It was cringeworthy the way they showed it about ten times too, and I watched them all

It was a bit pornographic, wasn't it? He's broken the tibia and fibula - operation needed, deffo out for the season. Just as he was showing signs of bedding in (unlike, say, Kewell, who was shite again, yesterday).

We've got to sort out that comedy defending. Blackburn deserved to win, yesterday. Not because they were silky and convincing (apart from Emerton, who was superb), but because our defence goes into Keystone Kops panic mode every time another team strays into the final third.

Still, Stevie G's back in a couple of weeks.

All the best to Cisse.

Ely · Post by **Ely** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:11 pm 0

I could hardly watch the replay of Cisse's leg giving way, ouch

They reckon he's uut for the rest of the season, that sucks.

Baros will be happy now though won't he, I mean he has every reason not pass to Cisse now, not that he ever did !!

f0zz · Post by **f0zz** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:18 pm 0

Most saturdays for me a visit to Old Trafford was like gallow walk, the journey home, a procession. We were so shit the double decker match bus special was black.

Yep it was the early 80's. We were shit. Didn't stop me cheering the lads on though. Joe Jordan, the Greenhoff twins, Martin Buchan et al had done their bit, trouncing our fiercest rivals in '77.

I remember everyone hated Liverpool back then. It wasn't just us Mancs (though we reserved the right to carry the Shankly inflatable skeleton to every match, whether Liverpool featured or not.

)

So i equally reserve the right to gloat like a bastard through the 90's, even though by then I couldn't justify a remortgage for the season ticket (and besides, the ubiquitous cockney prawn sarnie brigade had snapped most of em up anyways)

Aye, that's the fucking smooth that came after a whole shitload of rough. Isn't that how every true team supporter thinks ? And I totally understand why everyone hates United, because that peculiarly english trait bubbles to the surface with only the slightest provocation. Thats how I felt about that glorious Liverpool team that made every year of the eighties a one-horse race. Didn't see no scousers apologising for that, and I certainly ain't about to say sorry for making you yawn through the 90's

And yeah we are teetering into shitedom again, Fergie has outstayed his retirement, but it's been a lovely decade. One I never thought would happen when Coventry city and WBA were turning us over at home.

Nice while it lasted. Mebbe getting soft, but my deep, tribal hatred of Liverpool has mellowed. Perhaps you can afford to be a bit more magnanimous when you're looking down, but s'probably more for the fact that my second missus is a Liverpool fan (yes, she's a cockney natch - but one who has at least been to three european cup finals)

Fucking Arsenal, on the other hand......

cheers
f0zz

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:41 pm 0

f0zz wrote: Fucking Arsenal, on the other hand......

Fuckin A!

And those Liverpool and Newcastle wannabees

Sickboy · Post by **Sickboy** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:57 pm 0

f0zz wrote:Most saturdays for me a visit to Old Trafford was like gallow walk, the journey home, a procession. We were so shit the double decker match bus special was black.

Yep it was the early 80's. We were shit. Didn't stop me cheering the lads on though. Joe Jordan, the Greenhoff twins, Martin Buchan et al had done their bit, trouncing our fiercest rivals in '77.

Standard Man Utd fan stuff - prove your authenticity, been there since the bad ol' days, not a fair-weather Southern fan, etc.

Was that... was that... when... (sorry, I have to savour this)... you were in the old SECOND DIVISION?

I remember everyone hated Liverpool back then. It wasn't just us Mancs (though we reserved the right to carry the Shankly inflatable skeleton to every match, whether Liverpool featured or not. )

Tschaaah. Maybe *you* hated Liverpool, being a Man Utd fan and, yeah, perhaps it is selective deafness, but I don't remember hearing anything like the gut-level disdain I hear these days for Man Utd.

So i equally reserve the right to gloat like a bastard through the 90's, even though by then I couldn't justify a remortgage for the season ticket (and besides, the ubiquitous cockney prawn sarnie brigade had snapped most of em up anyways)

*sigh* Yeah. When I left The North, I gave up my Anfield ticket... *sob* Still about five years down on the waiting list.

Aye, that's the fucking smooth that came after a whole shitload of rough. Isn't that how every true team supporter thinks ? And I totally understand why everyone hates United, because that peculiarly english trait bubbles to the surface with only the slightest provocation.

Don't really understand yer point. Seems to me, United are a whole lot easier to hate because they've become such a soulless global brand, with loads of nationally and internationally distributed supporters.

Er, like Liverpool.

You know what I mean, though.

Next point...

Thats how I felt about that glorious Liverpool team that made every year of the eighties a one-horse race. Didn't see no scousers apologising for that, and I certainly ain't about to say sorry for making you yawn through the 90's

Well, yeah. Particularly now the fans are spread around so widely, I think a lot of the United/Liverpool venom comes from the general honours arms race. You know as well as I do that the two things that really count are league titles first, European Cups second. Liverpool fans are relieved that the United dominance seems to be slowing down, 'cos you were getting a bit too close to that 18 league championships record.

PaulEMoz · Post by **PaulEMoz** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 4:18 pm 0

You know, I'm not generally a hateful person. In fact, I'm one of the least hateful people around. It's just....football does that to me sometimes!

And I don't generally have a pop at Man Utd. fans (except for blatant glory hunters). It's just the players and their petulant "how dare you go against us?" attitude that winds me up. If they could lose a game without kicking the opposition to Kingdom Come, or if a referee actually punished them properly for doing it, I would probably have no problems at all. But other than that, I enjoy having the mostly friendly banter that we have in this thread. And it IS mostly friendly, with most of the barbs being given and taken in the best of nature. I expect it will stay that way too.

Sickboy wrote:[But yeah, I mostly hate Man Utd because it's football and it's tribal and I'm a Liverpool fan and, y'know, it's in my nature. What's your excuse, Paul?

1996. 12 points. Luv it if we beat them, etc. etc.

Zen-Chan · Post by **Zen-Chan** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:17 pm 0

Some calamitous defending there for Diouf to get a goal.

(Then he got automatically booked for taking the shirt off to celebrate

That rule needs to get stopped)

Edit - Spoke too soon. 1-1 and WHAT a goal!

Zoot · Post by **Zoot** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:23 pm 0

PaulEMoz wrote: 1996. 12 points. Luv it if we beat them, etc. etc.

What happened in 1996? Man Utd won the league again, but I can't remember anything else. Who was second, then?

Ely · Post by **Ely** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:37 pm 0

Zen-Chan wrote:(Then he got automatically booked for taking the shirt off to celebrate That rule needs to get stopped)

Indeed it is indeed quite silly. I reckon the whole team should take their shirts off or something, that be hilarious, just imagine the Referees Face

The stupidest part of it is that you can see Referees having to make the booking when quite clearly they think it's wrong as well!

f0zz · Post by **f0zz** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:58 pm 0

I believe that, no matter who you support, we can all take solace in what football has become, whilst spectating some of the most enjoyable and exciting stuff, well, ever.

It still takes a bit of getting used to, scanning the team sheets and seeing Van-this and Jose-that, where Smiths and Jones's used to be.

But, ahh dammit, we went into it with our eyes open. The premiership is a league to be held up to the light and savoured, aspired to even, by envious neighbours. We can't moan about not competing with european dynamism, and keep our pie-and-peas homebrew mentality at the same time.

I just think, no, I know that, in the final analysis, when that extra 10% is needed at the death of a rousing FA cup final or crucial league title game, mister Hair Gel of Portugal, or mister Boy Dungud of Cameroon are going to be found wanting. A trade-off for the brilliance and attractiveness of skillful players who want to be here, but a bit galling nonetheless.

Love the banter, love the passion that this silly round ball can evoke from normally level-headed folk. As long as that remains, what does it matter ?

cheers
f0zz