Trump

[F-ZeroOne]

KlaxonCow, I have seen US orientated political sites use the term "whipping" in a similar way to the English political usage.

[PFVA]

If the intention of that man that is still in the White House was to mess up the new administration party on the 20th he has succeeded. The area is looking like it's under siege with all those troops. I call what those Trump's supporters did terrorism. They created a situation of terror that requires a military presence, and that man incentivated it.

[F-ZeroOne]

Edit: Ah, nevermind. Let the joke get in the way of the facts.

[KlaxonCow]

I heard a good point today.

Biden should just call off the "party" entirely. We've got a pandemic going on and there's no need for it - and it would set the correct tone, after President Rally-with-no-masks is kicked out.

Like, he could be sworn in, in a room in Congress - broadcast it, so folks can see it, sure - and then any "party" can be postponed until this time next year.

There's no need for it. It's egotism, really. Call off the "party" and just get the job done, so that, you know, America can get on top of the virus and vaccinate and all that, so that future parties are made possible sooner rather than later.

And it somewhat diffuses the current threat. And it sets the right tone and message, about taking this pandemic seriously. And it sets the right example to show the nation. And it says "I'm a President that cares about doing the right thing and getting the job done, and I'm not a President who's all narcissistic and fragile to need to have big crowds praising me, as if I'm a God King, like the previous arsehole".

[merman]

I heard a good point today.

Biden should just call off the "party" entirely. We've got a pandemic going on and there's no need for it - and it would set the correct tone, after President Rally-with-no-masks is kicked out.

Like, he could be sworn in, in a room in Congress - broadcast it, so folks can see it, sure - and then any "party" can be postponed until this time next year.

There's no need for it. It's egotism, really. Call off the "party" and just get the job done, so that, you know, America can get on top of the virus and vaccinate and all that, so that future parties are made possible sooner rather than later.

And it somewhat diffuses the current threat. And it sets the right tone and message, about taking this pandemic seriously. And it sets the right example to show the nation. And it says "I'm a President that cares about doing the right thing and getting the job done, and I'm not a President who's all narcissistic and fragile to need to have big crowds praising me, as if I'm a God King, like the previous arsehole".

The inauguration SHOULD go ahead on the 20th. It is the symbol of the transfer of power.
Biden has already told people NOT to travel to Washington and watch it at home. He wants it to be about unity and a new start. We will see if the Trumpists look good when they try to stop/protest it.

[WiteWulf]

I heard a good point today.

Biden should just call off the "party" entirely. We've got a pandemic going on and there's no need for it - and it would set the correct tone, after President Rally-with-no-masks is kicked out.

Like, he could be sworn in, in a room in Congress - broadcast it, so folks can see it, sure - and then any "party" can be postponed until this time next year.

Pretty sure I suggested exactly this a few weeks back either here or on Twitter. The inauguration should go ahead, sure, but not on the big stage in the middle of Washington. Trim it all down, bare bones, necessary bodies only. Show a bit of respect and side-step the risk of shooters/rioters.

[KlaxonCow]

Pretty sure I suggested exactly this a few weeks back either here or on Twitter. The inauguration should go ahead, sure, but not on the big stage in the middle of Washington. Trim it all down, bare bones, necessary bodies only. Show a bit of respect and side-step the risk of shooters/rioters.

Fair enough. If you did suggest that, then I missed it. But, yes, exactly what you're saying.

And, indeed, the inauguration itself - the actual act of swearing in the President - should definitely happen because, you know, that's actually got legal ramifications and all that.

But, yeah, the idea is that it doesn't have to be a big "party" in the middle of Washington. Bare bones. Do it inside a room in Congress, with necessary bodies only, and broadcast that on TV.

The inauguration SHOULD go ahead on the 20th. It is the symbol of the transfer of power.

I can also appreciate that point of view.

But, for me, pragmatism always trumps mere "symbols".

And I'm not saying that there is no inauguration - there has to be, for all the correct legal "i"s to be dotted and "t"s to be crossed - but there doesn't have to be a big "party" about it. Do it in a room inside Congress, and broadcast it to the nation.

Do it in a "Covid secure" fashion that does not encourage anybody to be crowding anywhere, but rather staying at home (or "sheltering in place" is how the Yanks prefer to phrase that) and watching it on TV, as that's the only place you will be able to see it, so it encourages not a single person to be crowding anywhere, with this virus still very much at large, in the country where it's worst of all.

Basically, for me, symbols never outweigh actual human lives.

[Harlequin]

Biden has at least asked people to stay at home and watch it on the telly.

[F-ZeroOne]

So, in the interests of "balance", Biden has picked a science advisor (imagine that!) - but it seems he has some baggage attached:

https://www.statnews.com/2016/01/25/why ... r-morphed/

[Barney]

Without the inauguration "party" they will be giving significant ammunition to those who don't believe that Trump lost. They'll point to the lack of ceremony and shout loudly that it's not real, that Biden didn't win, that the deep state is faking it all, etc etc etc.

There needs to be some sort of ceremony, albeit with the public encouraged not to attend. Make it perfectly clear that the transfer of power is happening, in a way that anyone that wants to can witness it in person should they wish.

[KlaxonCow]

Without the inauguration "party" they will be giving significant ammunition to those who don't believe that Trump lost. They'll point to the lack of ceremony and shout loudly that it's not real, that Biden didn't win, that the deep state is faking it all, etc etc etc.

I had thought of that, but disregarded it because, come on, if someone truly believes that Biden didn't win, the Deep State is faking it and all that kind of crap, then those people are beyond reasoning with. They believe these things anyway and will continue to believe these things, whatever the fuck you do.

What's the saying?

"You cannot reason a person out of a position that they never used reason to get into".

If you believe that the lizard aliens are using 5G to spread a virus to steal an election to bring about a One World Government who's going to steal all the guns and impose Communism because you "feel it in your gut", despite all evidence to the contrary, and just think that Trump is "your man", then there are basically no facts, figures, logical arguments, or anything else that will disabuse you of that.

No "alt right" Qanon insurrectionist Trump supporter is going to look at the inauguration and think "oh, look, they've made slightly more of a fuss about this than expected, with a big party... look, there's some tickertape...well, I now wholly disavow all my previous beliefs completely, will surrender all my guns and join the Communist party, in celebration of my instant conversion".

They don't believe this shit for rational reasons, so you can't "undo" their thinking with any amount of rational appeal.

And there's a point beyond which, I feel, you just have to stop accounting for the mad bastards, as it's just impossible to reach them, let alone please them.

[KlaxonCow]

Well, they've filled the National Mall with nearly 200,000 American flags:



(Note: real-time footage, so a bit slow and boring, as is the C-SPAN way. Just skim through it for the overall gist. Basically, the whole Mall is full of flags and they've lit them up at night.)

Kind of clever, I guess.

Because this is all very symbolic, but also quite practical - even if you wanted to show up on the day, then you can't, as they've filled up that space, so there's nowhere to stand.

Maybe they have been clever about their plans that they can have a "Covid secure" / insurrection-free inauguration ceremony. We'll see.

[tufty]

it's just impossible to reach them, let alone please them.

The problem is not that it's impossible to reach them - after all, Trump has managed this very effectively. Indeed, that is very much part of the problem - after decades of being ignored and lied to, they have been reached out to, made to feel important, and given some utter tripe to believe in, tripe that panders to their baser instincts. And the more that the people who have ignored and lied to them for so long tell them that it's tripe, the more they will believe it - because a lot of that tripe is based on the very real fact that they have, in fact, actually been ignored and lied to for decades.

It's an enormously hard problem to solve, and may actually be insoluble. What's required is for their lives to be made better, and for them to accept that their lives are being made better (which their sacred tripe is telling them isn't / won't be the case - see, for example, universal health care in the US, or membership of the EU in the UK), or for their tripe to take control and make their lives so absolutely mindfuckingly awful that they can't ignore reality any more They need to become aware that their sacred tripe is, in fact, tripe, but you don't do that by shouting "but it's all tripe you fucking morons", or worse, just ignoring them and hoping that they'll go away.

[venusian]

...which is why (IMO) one of the usual arguments against PR, that it lets the looneys have a voice, is rubbish.

The looneys should have a voice. And the need to be able to do a bit of shouting to prevent a rich man is a suit hitching them up to his financial train.

[Harlequin]

The looneys should have a voice. And the need to be able to do a bit of shouting to prevent a rich man is a suit hitching them up to his financial train.

The anti-EU lot had quite a large voice in the EU Parliament. That did not appear to mollify them enough to prevent them being hitched up to the financial train of a New York-born suited fat rich man with weird yellow hair.