One STEAM to rule them all - Steam Machine and Frame thread

[MattyP]

It will be interesting to see how the SM performs. Lots of talk about it being underpowered and not enough VRAM etc.

Not sure what the consensus is on "not enough VRAM" how much do you need? I mean I've used a Series S console with GamePass for a while and never felt it was lagging or anything. Pretty much runs everything flawlessly for me. That only has 10GB of memory - 2GB clocked at a slower speed used for OS stuff and effectively 8GB for everything else. SM has in total 24GB (16GB work RAM and 8 VRAM).

Not sure what the actual sweet spot is for gaming on a PC these days. To some degree I guess it depends on what games your want to play and at what visual fidelity.

Still interested in a SM TBH. Just as a new piece of gaming tech to play with that will run Steam stuff better than my Mac.

[gilesgoat]

Parenthesis .. "we been asked to support this .. and that .. " ... we'll support ..

[KlaxonCow]

The RAM vs. VRAM balance is an interesting one, simply because Linux typically runs with much less RAM than Windows ever did - even more so with the SteamOS interface, which uses a more lean-and-mean compositor.

So Arch / KDE has a minimum of 512MB and 2GB of RAM recommended for a smooth experience - and Gamescope, the SteamOS compositor, demands less than even this - while Windows comes with a 4GB minimum and an 8GB "smooth experience" recommendation.

Therefore, if RAM and VRAM were priced the same (which they're not), the logic absolutely should be reversed to 8GB RAM + 16GB VRAM because games will be more demanding of VRAM than of RAM, generally speaking. Or, considering 12GB is a common VRAM size on your mid-tier, the balanced 12GB RAM + 12GB VRAM would actually seem a nice "sweet spot", as you're not starving either.

That is, as Linux itself tends to be less demanding of RAM simply to run than Windows ever was, you can use the few GB less it typically uses and give it over to VRAM.

But this feels economically driven, remembering that AI is eating everyone's lunch and VRAM is exactly what all these big AI models are devouring - and where it does actually matter because you want a whole model inside VRAM at once, because virtually shifting it in and out shreds AI performance. That, yes, it's probably 16GB RAM + 8GB VRAM simply because, while all memory prices are going nuts as AI wants it all, VRAM is likely worse, as AI wants it all on the GPU model primarily.

[Misfit]

There are usually codes around for Crossover.

I’m sure Tsai has a cheaper link.

Give it a few days. There will be a Black Friday deal.

Renewals are usually very reduced. Think my last one was £25.

OK decided to go with Crossover I think.

20% Crossover link in the description, it doesn't seem to copy, so go to YT and follow it...

[MattyP]

There are usually codes around for Crossover.

I’m sure Tsai has a cheaper link.

Give it a few days. There will be a Black Friday deal.

Renewals are usually very reduced. Think my last one was £25.

OK decided to go with Crossover I think.

20% Crossover link in the description, it doesn't seem to copy, so go to YT and follow it...

Great! Thanks for the heads up! Apparently they do some sales on Cyber Monday too... so going to have a look on Monday. Still have a while left on my trial at the moment (which is going really well!).

WIth regards Crossover been having a play around with it over the past week. Its great for most Steam games that are fairly simple - however soon as you move to more demanding things it struggles a bit - I ran the remastered version of The Last Of Us for example. It ran. However had to turn the detail level down to low at 1080p. It was still a bit stuttery in places but not unplayable. However it has ran everything I've thrown at it so far with good results TBH. Very impressive.

It would certainly tie me over until I plan out where I am going gaming wise in the future. Seem to spend most of my time on the Series S at the moment. Prefer the pad and everything is nice and quick. Also the device is small, cute and quiet so doesn't get in the way. Which is also the appeal of the Steam Machine.

Still not a huge fan of the PlayStation 5 - its big and just odd looking. Love the DualSense tech though - when a game makes good use of it (Astrobot looking at you!) however examples like this are few and far between. Its the only thing I have at the moment that can run the higher end console releases well though. However really there aren't many of them these days to be fair. Also don't really like Sony's digital ecosystem. No refunds on downloaded games and sub service needed for cloud storage and online gaming. One of the elements of Steam I really like is you can give things a try for upto a couple of hours. If you don't enjoy get a refund. Simple. Of course cloud saves are free as is online gaming (if I actually want to do any!).

Used to like GamePass sort of worked for me. However not sure how good this is for the industry as a whole going forward.

[Misfit]

WIth regards Crossover been having a play around with it over the past week. It's great for most Steam games that are fairly simple - however soon as you move to more demanding things it struggles a bit

Still not a huge fan of the PlayStation 5

My PS5 has been turned on once in the last year, and that was to test if it worked when I changed the room it lives in. I still want to play Astro Bot, but it never shows up cheaply enough for me to buy it. Xbox and Deck get the little time I game.

Crossover, you're talking about games that usually need graphics cards with large PSUs, and you're using an integrated chip which sips power in comparison. So it's shocking how well it does really (and the standard M5 seems impressive)

I think if you have a a higher end game that you really want to play then you need to be prepared to mess, just watching the guy above's videos and you'll see he's often flipping between vulcan, direct X, metal etc and playing with settings to improve results, so I think the more you learn what options there are/play, the better it will be.

Also, using the preview build seems the way forward.

Luckily for me, most of the things I want to play work on the Deck, so a Machine or a Mac should cover my TV box needs.

[MattyP]

Crossover, you're talking about games that usually need graphics cards with large PSUs, and you're using an integrated chip which sips power in comparison. So it's shocking how well it does really (and the standard M5 seems impressive)

I think if you have a a higher end game that you really want to play then you need to be prepared to mess, just watching the guy above's videos and you'll see he's often flipping between vulcan, direct X, metal etc and playing with settings to improve results, so I think the more you learn what options there are/play, the better it will be.

Oh absolutely I was impressed that it even ran at all! Kudos to the Crossover team and the Mac hardware! TBH I was just pushing a bit to see at what point it would start to struggle so I didn't even expect it to boot up the game! That fact that it did and it was playable was hugely impressive!

Luckily for me, most of the things I want to play work on the Deck, so a Machine or a Mac should cover my TV box needs.

Indeed its getting that way for me too. Just don't have the time or patience to get too involved in a single game these days. Love seeing what the new hardware can do though in terms of cutting edge gaming. However then go back to playing something fairly ancient again be it an old shooter or racing game. So probably thinking about it I should just watch a YouTube video coo at the graphics on there then go back to something like a Steam Machine or a Switch to play the games I spend most of my time playing anyway. I mean I spent half an hour the other day playing GameBoy Tetris on the Switch 2.

Love new techie toys though. But feel I could save myself an awful lot of money not buying them as they usually gather dust waiting for one exclusive game or another. The Steam Machine is still tempting me though. Love the form factor its so cute. It would be great to pop under the TV and access my Steam games there. Rather than playing them on the Mac at a desk.

Re: Astrobot indeed never seems to be on sale TBH. Great game though. Maybe worth picking up some cheap PlayStation credit from somewhere like Loaded (formally CDKeys) and go that route? It's £70 digital on the store. One of the best platformers I've played though so many great touches. One of this gens standout titles IMHO.

[KlaxonCow]

LTT speculating on the Steam Machine price:



And I've got a bit more trust in this one that a lot of the "clickbait" videos floating around ever since the announcement.

Not least because, like, Linus directly talked to Valve about their pricing - so he's got a "read the room" advantage over everyone else just speculating from specs alone - but also because they've spec'd out a similar machine (to also compare its performance) and they've got a "lab" that tests all the hardware out there, so they've got a measure on the market that others don't have.

As well as the fact that all their reasoning / logic makes complete sense - they've not rushed to this, but thought it all through. Plus, they've stuck their neck out with an estimate - and a "you've got to eat a Portal cake on camera, if it's wrong" penalty.

They're estimating $699 - up to maybe $799, if tariffs go nuts in the interrim.

Which is more than a PS5, while the performance is around what you get with the "vanilla" PS5. But, as noted, it's not locked down at all and you'll be paying Steam prices, not console prices, for the games - so Steam sales and what you've already got in your Steam library (which if anything like mine has more games than I'll ever play in my entire life and is about to get worse when I inevitably buy the Yogscast's "Jingle Jam" collection for charity that I do every year). And it's a PC, so you can do non-console things. Run a media centre off it, retro gaming emulators, etc..

So though it's more expensive, the overall value proposition is still really good, if you think in terms of "total cost of ownership" on buying games for it / other things you can do with it, as well. Because it's only just slightly more expensive than the PS5 at LTT's estimate, but you are getting a mini PC and not just a console here.

(Plus, remember that, on the same handheld hardware, SteamOS ran Windows games faster than Windows did. This advantage would also exist on the Steam Machine as well. And Linux itself simply takes much less RAM to run than Windows does, even running a desktop. And Valve will be, as they did with the Steam Deck, tuning this thing as much as they possibly can to more deeply integrate things into SteamOS, which is dedicated to gaming that Windows can't.)

Also, I think his "closing thoughts" that SteamOS is going to be the thing that matters, long after we've forgotten all about the Steam Machine and Steam Frame is spot on as well. Because if this kicks off PC builders and third parties making "SteamOS" machines - different price-to-performance and form factors - and builds an "ecosystem", then these devices are only "standard models" to lay the groundwork and set the standards.

Discuss.

[MattyP]

Agree. If it comes in at £699 not a bad price TBH. Sure you could mess around building your own SM but that is kind of missing the point of the SM entirely. You are paying for the user experience and a more stable device to play Steam games on. Also no Windows in sight. That has to be worth the price of admission on its own.

This will be the push as you mention that will get SteamOS the drive it needs to overturn the current market domination in PC by MS and Windows. It's been a stranglehold they have had far too long. Especially in gaming.

I've tried Linux on multiple occasions as a main machine however there was always something that pulled me back to Windows. Probably thinking about Steam and games. I can use office type things on any platform now lots of options. Kind of why I went with a Mac in the end. Nice half way house with lovely UI and hardware.

Still not 100% sure whether I'll pick up SM. I really want to however it will absolutely come down to pricing. But I do have a collection of consoles sat there that can be resold to fund things!

[Misfit]

Discuss.

His reasoning sounds fair, sadly, it's just a bad time to be needing VRAM.

For me, I think what will make this worth the price of admission is the size, quietness and being able to turn it on from a controller.

Something that will be hard to achieve in a self-build.

[MattyP]

For anyone looking to get Crossover for the Mac it's currently on a Cyber Monday deal for £15 (down from £60). Works well. Needs a bit of tweaking for the more demanding texture heavy 3D games. But to be fair that Mac Mini was never designed as gaming powerhouse!

https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover?s ... sFHQUXnKw6

[Misfit]

For anyone looking to get Crossover for the Mac it's currently on a Cyber Monday deal for £15 (down from £60). Works well. Needs a bit of tweaking for the more demanding texture heavy 3D games. But to be fair that Mac Mini was never designed as gaming powerhouse!

https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover?s ... sFHQUXnKw6

Bargain.

Annoyingly, I renewed on the 27th as if you renew before it expires, you get a reduced rate, which was £28.

Had I known the CM deal would be this good, I'd have let it expire.

The question now is, do I add another year for £15..?

[Mat]

For anyone looking to get Crossover for the Mac it's currently on a Cyber Monday deal for £15 (down from £60). Works well. Needs a bit of tweaking for the more demanding texture heavy 3D games. But to be fair that Mac Mini was never designed as gaming powerhouse!

https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover?s ... sFHQUXnKw6

YOINK!
Perfect timing, as I ordered a swish new M5 MBP14" (with the Nano Texture screen) on Friday!

[Misfit]

YOINK!
Perfect timing, as I ordered a swish new M5 MBP14" (with the Nano Texture screen) on Friday!

Very nice. No idea what you're coming from, but that looks like quite a beast.

If I gamed at all on my Mac there would be some temptation, but my M1 Pro MBP14 is still too good for my general needs.

When they do a refresh of the design, I could be pulled in, although some of the talk on here does make me wonder if an M5 Mini when it releases is a viable alternative to a Steam Machine.

It would certainly be likely to get past the accountant as a work asset...

[Mat]

Very nice. No idea what you're coming from, but that looks like quite a beast.

My current laptop is a sub-£1K Lenovo Thinkbook from 2021, which was bought more as a necessity at the time. I was freelancing, and needed a work laptop of my own, having relied on employers providing them previously.

A couple of keys have died over the years, and I was getting increasingly annoyed with Windows 11. Also, I paid off my mortgage in September, so my disposable income has increased significantly, and a shiny new MacBook was hard to resist

I like to try and keep a toe in all three main OSes, just so I remain familiar, and I haven't had one of my wigglies in Mac waters for 5 years now.

Mind you, while waiting for delivery, I have popped Mint Cinnamon onto my old laptop. I used to run Ubuntu on it, but there were several things that didn't work right and Ubuntu always felt a bit slow and unstable.

And Mint's actually quite nice!
Runs nippily, supports my Bluetooth headphones properly out of the box (where Ubuntu only ever supported mono audio on them), and I even got the fingerprint reader working with a little help from Gemini (which is great for logins and AWESOME for terminal sudo commands.)

So a little lease of life for a few days before the dreaded Cupboard of Retired Tech beckons.