Politics Thread!

[PFVA]

May I copy that?
In this corner of Europe we also those defending anti refugees policies, even if with small differences. The last I heard fm our extreme right leader is that people coming from our ex-colonies is OK but we should send back and not accept people from Pakistan, Nepal, Marrocco, etc. He mentioned those countries specifically.

[Harlequin]

May I copy that?

https://brianbilston.com/2016/03/23/refugees

[KlaxonCow]

May I copy that?

Not mine. It has the credit to the actual poet who wrote it at the bottom of the image, as Harlequin has more properly linked to.

I was just reposting it from Twitter, as I liked it. Someone posted it on the big "#WeStandWithGary" thread, as I was reading through it.

Indeed, it's a bit annoying that it's an image, so it can't be just copy-pasted, but there you go.

[zip accident]

May I copy that?

Not mine. It has the credit to the actual poet who wrote it at the bottom of the image, as Harlequin has more properly linked to.

I was just reposting it from Twitter, as I liked it. Someone posted it on the big "#WeStandWithGary" thread, as I was reading through it.

Indeed, it's a bit annoying that it's an image, so it can't be just copy-pasted, but there you go.

If it wasn't an image, the obvious thing to do would be to have both versions, side by side or one above the other.

I think both versions are too extreme.

[KlaxonCow]

Funny thing is, if the Tories had just, you know, ignored that a football presenter disapproved of their policy on Twitter - and didn't have this needy insistence to "brook no opposition" at all costs - then this would have just blown over.

But now all the sports presenters on the BBC have gone on strike, and they had to show "Bargain Hunt" instead of any sport.

And, in reporting it, they're obliged to keep repeating what Gary said. It's making folks - like me - go look on Twitter to see exactly what he said, and I give zero shits for football, so I'd be nowhere near Gary's Twitter otherwise.

If you read what Gary wrote, then he was concerned that this policy - and its dehumanising language - was heading in the wrong direction. I mean, whether you agree with him or not, that's a valid concern to have and one that, if you believe it is going in the wrong direction, you're morally obliged to speak out against.

Whereas, the government's rebuttal seems to be. "Language used in Germany in the '30s" relates to the Nazis, which relates to the Holocaust, which relates to the Jews and Antisemitism is a taboo subject... so shut up, Gary. Like, it's making a series of connections that Lineker did not remotely mention to make the leap to "you can't criticise the Jews, because of the Holocaust" - to try to silence him in the most roundabout way imaginable.

As Lineker himself ended that tweet: "...and I'm out of order?".

Indeed, from my perspective, Gary's letting them off lightly.

The Rwandan policy is, as I've said, effectively a new form of the slave trade. They're un-abolishing the principle that you can't trade human beings for money. They are, as the slavers did, effectively kidnapping people and rendering them - rendition - to another country (which is NOT their country of origin and NOT the last country from which they came to the UK, which are both established as reasonable places for deportation. But just randomly sending people to a completely unrelated country is rendition. It's a form of kidnap. Like grabbing black people from Africa and just "depositing" them in the Americas, exchanging money for the transaction).

What they are doing is the same act as the historical slave traders enacted. The sole difference is that the slaves are being traded for a negative price - that Rwanda gets money for taking these slaves off our hands, rather than purchasing them from us.

And, for pity's sake, Rwanda. The other country, besides Germany, famous for its historical genocide. Apparently, the Tories approached many countries to try to make this deal and all of them - save Rwanda - outright refused on the grounds that it's fundamentally immoral. Everyone else said "no, that's dodgy as fuck and completely wrong, so of course we're not going to take that deal". These refugees are being deported to Rwanda, just because it's a dodgy enough country to actually accept this shady deal of "here's some cash, if you just ignore your moral obligations to humanity" and Rwanda's the only country they could find who'd say "sure, we've got a track record of dehumanising people, so this is not a problem for us... and we do very much like to have your money".

[rowan]

I've been finding the whole thing hilarious as it started to unfold last night, the BBC thinking they had a point before swiftly realising the majority's behind Gary.
But they somehow have to follow or reconcile the precedent they've set.

[tufty]

Like, it's making a series of connections that Lineker did not remotely mention to make the leap to "you can't criticise the Jews, because of the Holocaust" - to try to silence him in the most roundabout way imaginable.

Cobblers.

Lineker is (rightly, IMO) comparing this government's language to the language used by the Nazis to describe the jews and other "undesirables". In no way has this been painted as Lineker criticising the Jews. Or even as the Lineker saying the government are criticising the Jews. It has been, again correctly, shown as Lineker comparing the government's language to that of the Nazi propagandists.

Oddly, when Lord Sugar tweeted that people should vote conservative, he didn't get sacked from the BBC.

[gilesgoat]

**EXPLAIN ME THIS** ESTA for UK ?!!

OK the full article IN ITALIAN ( use google translate ) : https://www.ilmessaggero.it/mondo/londr ... 78340.html

Some quick translations ( by me )

" con l'introduzione dell'ETA, Electronic System Travel Authorisation, un permesso a pagamento che ciascun viaggiatore dovrà chiedere e ottenere prima di recarsi Oltremanica."

.. with the introduction of ETA , Electronic System Travel Authorisation , a paid permit that each traveller will have to request and obtain BEFORE to come ( to VISIT ) UK ..

" Prima di partire dovranno seguire una procedura simile a quella necessaria per andare negli Stati Uniti, dove è necessario compilare l'ESTA, inserendo i propri dati e l'indirizzo dove si alloggerà, oltre a pagare una somma "

Before to depart you'll have to follow a procedure similar to the one necessary to visti USA where you have to compile the ESTA inserting your data and pay a sum ..

"Anche il Regno Unito chiederà un pagamento in denaro ma il governo non ha ancora precisato di quanto si tratterà. Quello che è certo, è che dovranno pagarlo tutti, minori inclusi."

UK too will ask for a money payment but the government has not yet defined how much. What is sure is that everyone will have to pay it including minors.

"Il nuovo sistema entrerà in vigore per i Paesi europei, Italia inclusa, entro la fine del 2024, si legge sul sito del ministero dell'Interno, mentre i primi a sperimentarlo saranno i cittadini provenienti dal Qatar già da ottobre 2023."

The new system will enter in work for all the european countries, Italy included, around the end of 2024, we read on the website of Internal Affairs, while the first to experiment it will be the citizens coming from Qtar already by October 2023 ...

"Come sottolinea il ministro dell'immigrazione Robert Jenrick, «rafforzare i nostri confini rimane una delle priorità del governo»."

How the ministry for immigration Robert Jenrick underlines << reinforce our borders remains one of our main priorities >> ..


.. I am spechless ..

Well NO, I'd have "a boatload of Italian swearwords for this" ...

UK .. WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU BECOME ??!! AND WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE GOING TO BECOME THANKS TO TORIES ??!!??

[KlaxonCow]

In no way has this been painted as Lineker criticising the Jews.

That's not remotely what I said. Please re-read.

[Harlequin]

In no way has this been painted as Lineker criticising the Jews.

That's not remotely what I said. Please re-read.

Like, it's making a series of connections that Lineker did not remotely mention to make the leap to "you can't criticise the Jews, because of the Holocaust" - to try to silence him in the most roundabout way imaginable.

[tufty]

.. I am spechless ..

You're not the only one, Giles. FFS.

[KlaxonCow]

You can see why Gary reacted as he did, and will not back down over it, once you see that this official Home Office propaganda video on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status ... 5628884992

Moody lighting. Serious ominous music. Multiple cameras. Vignettes. "Stop the boats" sloganeering.

This is an official taxpayer-funded announcement, but with "serious" production values attached. This much effort is not expended on announcing war or pandemics, but those don't need to convince you, against your better human instincts, that "black is white" and that an illegal law to punish the most vulnerable is, apparently, an excellent vote-winning idea.

It's perfectly Orwellian / V for Vendetta, coupled with this being the same woman who talks about an "invasion" of a "swarm", Gary's on the right side of history here and I applaud how he's taking a stand on this.

As folks on Twitter are pointing out, then the "Illegal Immigration Bill" is perhaps accurately named... so long as you put the emphasis in the right place.

That it's not "the (Illegal Immigration) Bill", but actually "the Illegal (Immigration Bill)".

And, stunningly, that's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact confirmed by the Home Secretary herself:



Openly admitting that it's illegal - as it is not compatible with the ECHR, which is UK law - but that the government "wishes to proceed" regardless.

[PFVA]

I don't know if it was noticed in the UK but the Tunisian president is planning to kick out of the country all the migrants coming into the country. He said something there is conspiracy to change the racial make up of his country introducing people from further south. Basically he only wants Arabs or people from European ancestry there.

Of course the thing is his country being in economic trouble, a lot of discontentment in general, lots of people asking for his resignation and he had to find someone to blame for his probs. However they are pushing the migrants south. If the other North Africa countries follow suit including chaotic Lybia there will be less migrants reaching Europe from subsaharan Africa. And if Turkey closes their boarders they won't be coming from Asia either.

[KlaxonCow]

I don't know if it was noticed in the UK but the Tunisian president is planning to kick out of the country all the migrants coming into the country. He said something there is conspiracy to change the racial make up of his country introducing people from further south. Basically he only wants Arabs or people from European ancestry there.

Seriously. Gary Lineker's dead right. This all very, very much sounds like the language of the 1930s.

Racial / cultural "purity". Foreign conspiracies to undermine that. And, of course, a major trigger underlying it all was Germany suffering economic turmoil, which has also repeated.

And, remember, Germany was amongst the most "civilised" countries on Earth at the time - any idea that "it's just not possible to happen in [insert country here]" is just not true - so if there's any notion that "it couldn't happen in the UK", dispel that. As folks would have said exactly the same about Germany, before that's exactly what happened.

Putin has normalised and restored the notion of invasive wars. Broken the "Westphalia" understanding of sovereignty, which might encourage further descent into the immoral cesspit.

The problem is that if the world really is building up to a revival of fascism and a World War... we can't afford such a war now, as nuclear technology guarantees it'll be Armageddon. It's not just moral to oppose this and see Putin lose, it's pragmatic: we cannot afford for this to become "the way of the world" again, as it'll be catastrophic. Very possibly our last days on this planet.

[gilesgoat]

I don't know if it was noticed in the UK but the Tunisian president is planning to kick out of the country all the migrants coming into the country. He said something there is conspiracy to change the racial make up of his country introducing people from further south. Basically he only wants Arabs or people from European ancestry there.

Of course the thing is his country being in economic trouble, a lot of discontentment in general, lots of people asking for his resignation and he had to find someone to blame for his probs. However they are pushing the migrants south. If the other North Africa countries follow suit including chaotic Lybia there will be less migrants reaching Europe from subsaharan Africa. And if Turkey closes their boarders they won't be coming from Asia either.

Hi, maybe "too late to the party" but I saw some Italian TV News today .. "what's going on with all those mega protests in Lisbon??" ..