Pink Floyd ....

[phattslagg]

"Concert pitch" says the A below middle C is 440Hz.

Wrong

[KlaxonCow]

"Concert pitch" says the A below middle C is 440Hz.

Wrong

Oops. Yes, sorry. The A above middle C.

[WiteWulf]

Glad to see I started a bit of enthusiastic discussion on this one. I thought my previous comment may have an element of "light blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance", while honestly not trying to be trollish.

Standards are great, so long as the creator has the option which ones to use and whether or not they adhere to them at all. You cannot and should not ENFORCE standards in the creative arena

[KlaxonCow]

You cannot and should not ENFORCE standards in the creative arena

Of course not.

Ah, perhaps that's the issue here.

That's a "taken as read" thing for me. But it's not for everyone, so I should probably make that abundantly clear.

I'm not "enforcing" anything on anyone, for any reason, at any point.

The idea of "a standard" here is just, as I've expressed, that of a "common vocabulary" in a vain "why can't we all just get along?" hope of humans being a bit nicer and more cooperative with one another.

[WiteWulf]

That’s not at all what you wrote:

I mean, there should really be a standard defined in audio. That everything is normalised to however many dB. Like, dB is both a relative and absolute scale - you can perfectly precisely define absolute loudness - and also relative loudness, because folks get to control their own volume knobs.

And there should be a simple thing where, as an industry standard, everything is normalised within a specified range.

[KlaxonCow]

That’s not at all what you wrote:

I mean, there should really be a standard defined in audio. That everything is normalised to however many dB. Like, dB is both a relative and absolute scale - you can perfectly precisely define absolute loudness - and also relative loudness, because folks get to control their own volume knobs.

And there should be a simple thing where, as an industry standard, everything is normalised within a specified range.

I meant "everything" as in "all categories" - music, TV shows, ads, etc. - because it's "a standard defined in audio" (all types and genres of audio), as opposed to just being defined in music alone.

I was thinking that it should be more than just music, as my biggest bugbear is fucking adverts. They always shout at twice the volume. So I want to be sure to include them, as they're arguably the worst bloody offenders here.

Perhaps I wasn't being too clear there, now that I read it back.

[Little stoned kiwi]

You know that TV ads are deliberately louder by the whims of the capitalist ruling class, comrade?

[tufty]

Fuck adverts, the solution to those is ad blockers, not watching commercial channels, not listening to commercial radio which only plays crap anyway, and failing all that, lining up the advertising executives aginst a wall and shooting the cunts.

Also, fuck normalising music. If you normalise music to a simple range, you lose pretty much all the power of tracks like (hard left back to Floyd) "Mother", which has a dynamic range way larger than pretty much anything you'll find today outside of jazz and classical music.

[KlaxonCow]

You know that TV ads are deliberately louder by the whims of the capitalist ruling class, comrade?

Exactly.

Define an industry standard, and then, as an audio engineer, you can claim to just be "complying with industry standards" to properly muzzle that crap.

It's giving them the professional tools to say "no" to the constant "loudness inflation" foisted upon them. Sorry, can't do it. That's not how this works. So, please, just fuck off with your soul-less greed. Kthanxbye.

[zip accident]

You know that TV ads are deliberately louder by the whims of the capitalist ruling class, comrade?

Exactly.

Define an industry standard, and then, as an audio engineer, you can claim to just be "complying with industry standards" to properly muzzle that crap.

It's giving them the professional tools to say "no" to the constant "loudness inflation" foisted upon them. Sorry, can't do it. That's not how this works. So, please, just fuck off with your soul-less greed. Kthanxbye.

You seriously think that would get any reply but "You are fired." ?

The people you are talking about don't give a crap about standards. Unless it somehow forced all of us to actuallly watch and listen to their pathetic adverts, they wouldn't go along with that sort of standard, and standards only work with corporate backing.

[Little stoned kiwi]

DRM is a standard.

[Rhythm]

You know that TV ads are deliberately louder by the whims of the capitalist ruling class, comrade?

That's regulated in the UK. Ads aren't allowed to be louder than the programme they're embedded into.

Why are some commercials much too loud, and who should I complain to about this?
Many factors can contribute to a sense of loudness; for example, the sound level of the preceding programme or advert. We do not allow broadcasters to make deliberate changes to increase the loudness of commercials. To complain, make a note of the channel, the commercial, the date and time then contact the appropriate broadcaster or the list of Ofcom licensees can be found here.

[Rhythm]

Fuck adverts, the solution to those is ad blockers, not watching commercial channels, not listening to commercial radio which only plays crap anyway, and failing all that, lining up the advertising executives aginst a wall and shooting the cunts.

The correct answer re: ads. I haven't done commercial TV in nigh-on 15 years, ditched TV license entirely in favour of companies who allow ad-free viewing 10 years ago. I've even stopped using Youtube now that they've started inserting ads into the content itself.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Does that apply to compression, lifting everything in the ads to the maximum allowed level?

[Rhythm]

Does that apply to compression, lifting everything in the ads to the maximum allowed level?

As I said, I don't (often) see commercial TV. When I have seen it (usually in waiting rooms) I can't say I've ever noticed it though.