Coronavirus Pandemic

[Little stoned kiwi]

Catch 22, init?

If the lockdowns contain transmission, prevent health services from being overwhelmed, and the death rate low, people will think it was all a waste of time.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Now all this opens "powerful phylosophical questions" about "free will" "freedom of committing mistakes" "redemption" and such ..

Have you read the short story, Minority Report, by Philip K. Dick? Ignore the Tom Cruise movie.
The story is a provocative thought experiment about free will vs. predestination where each is just a different perspective of the same events. The main character had freedom of choice the entire time but his choices are predicted.
It's like how we can go through life making our own choices but then look back and see we are products of our environment.

[gilesgoat]

Now all this opens "powerful phylosophical questions" about "free will" "freedom of committing mistakes" "redemption" and such ..

Have you read the short story, Minority Report, by Philip K. Dick? Ignore the Tom Cruise movie.
The story is a provocative thought experiment about free will vs. predestination where each is just a different perspective of the same events. The main character had freedom of choice the entire time but his choices are predicted.
It's like how we can go through life making our own choices but then look back and see we are products of our environment.

That is why you should NEVER be able to know the future...

[Deckard]

Just read a physics book and the guy in there was saying that - every atom in your body obeys physics so where you do think your choice comes from ? You are not aware of most of your bodily processes and have very little control/ if any (you cant choose to stop breathing for example) over a number of them so why would you think that your "consciousness" is any different.... just more atoms following a path....

[F-ZeroOne]

Meanwhile in the Philippines, Duterte has said that those disobeying the lockdown should be shot. And although, so far, his police have disobeyed him, he has authorised lethal force.

We had to kill the patient in order to save them?

[F-ZeroOne]

As an example of what believing a conspiracy theory can do:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid ... -12498986/

[Deckard]

Helped by not being all there in most cases too...

[gilesgoat]

As an example of what believing a conspiracy theory can do:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/02/paranoid ... -12498986/

.. if he'd be listening "too seriously" to Alex Johnes I can see why ... ... don't foreget this is all a retailation from the Chinese Govenment and it's part of the plan of those extra-dimensional AIs that merged with biological stuff that are controlling us ...

[rowan]

Work going to enforce mandatory 5 days unpaid absence where they can & asking everywhere else to do it voluntarily. Merit increases all deferred to 2021.
Also asking us to take 5 days paid leave [to "get a break etc." I read that as "once things do start picking up, we don't want everyone buggering off and no-one to do the work"].

In fairness I understand the first points - this will come to an end and things should pick up but whatever happens, they will have to reduce heads. If they can lessen the number they have to let go, it's better for both parties.

Still no slots for food deliveries in the foreseeable future, I plan to brave the supermarket once more next Monday.
I don't have any mask, will I get shouted at [here or there?]..


edit: Also, I had text from my mobile provider, saying "please only call us if it is urgent as we have fewer care advisers due to COVID"
WTF? How can a mobile company not be able to supply their "care advisers" with mobiles & work from home??

[The ghost of raids past]

Masks should be left for the people who need them to work in my opinion. Besides that they are near impossible to buy.

[gilesgoat]

*SNIP*
I don't have any mask, will I get shouted at [here or there?]..

In Naples, apparently YES ..

https://www.ilmattino.it/napoli/cronaca ... 46010.html

"Fight in a supermarket ensues because someone was not wearing a mask" NOTE that even in Italy masks are VERY HARD TO COME BY and they are very limited in distribution !

[edit] -

[edit2] - being Naples, still everyone very lucky that pistols/fire did not begin ...

[Cloudane]

HEPA filters are better than nothing as a face mask, apparently. Cut up some hoover bags. Just make sure they don't contain fiberglass

--

I do worry about the opportunity this gives governments to exert proper 1984 levels of control over people. Tracking everyone's movements by mobile phone and such (more officially than they were already doing) and sending the thugs round if you stay outside for more than your allotted 60 minutes can somehow sound like a great idea when it's to stop a virus...

But then if you were to argue that we should all be free to infect each other and damn the consequences because FREEDOM I'd say you were a reckless idiot.

Very tricky times - a test of democracy will be if once it's all over governments rein their own powers back in again for fear of getting voted out for a more libertarian party.

[gilesgoat]

HEPA filters are better than nothing as a face mask, apparently. Cut up some hoover bags. Just make sure they don't contain fiberglass


But then if you were to argue that we should all be free to infect each other and damn the consequences because FREEDOM I'd say you were a reckless idiot.

Depending on "in what sense you see it" has not an immediate answer.

I mean "immediately" is "no you should not because you potentially kill fuckload of others".

But "in another sense" - DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME HERE - we could say "yes you should have the freedom to be able to do so, should you decide it, BUT OF COURSE as you do so someone else should/could have the freedom to stop you doing that so you don't kill others".

Now the thin difference here is between "having still the freedom to make some choices and face the consequences", including the fact that someone else could stop you before you do, or better "your own reasoning/conscience should tell you NOT to do that" and the fact of "not being able to make choices at all".

I mean I am more around this kind of situation : for example "if I want to go out and rob a bank, I know it's wrong, I know it's a crime, I know there's police there and something 'bad' to me and/or others will happen" .. but if I really want to take my chances and face consequences I can do it.

Now imagine in a future "the powers that be" will implant a chip in my head or something that the moment I only think about it or try for a millisecond to do that will zap my brain and/or make me fall in a coma for x time.

Where are we at that point ?

Or maybe "I decided to protest about that same idea" and just because of that I get "de-activated" or shit like that ?

Is that good ?

You give me "the freedom that only you can give me" and I don't have any means to EARN "more freedom" or "change it" because at this point I don't have the freedom to do that.

See what I mean ?

[KlaxonCow]

I don't have any mask, will I get shouted at [here or there?]..

Not at all. Face masks are possibly the one item even more impossible to obtain than toilet paper right now.

The face masks I've seen people wearing out and about are often very much improvised. Basically, builders using their dust face masks from building work. People wrapping scarves or bandanas around their nose and mouth. That sort of thing. So not at all "medical grade", but a case of people feeling it's "better than nothing" to have some kind of filter.

But most people are face-mask-less. Including nearly all the Tesco employees - and Tesco really ought to look into that, lest a "virus bomb" walk into their store one day and take out their entire staff in one fell swoop. They've got gloves, but they've not yet installed any screens at the checkouts.

One mad one that I saw at my local supermarket was a dude wearing a builder's face mask and gloves, with him was his very pregnant girlfriend / wife, but she had no protection whatsoever. First of all, what the hell is she doing there at all, as that's a completely unnecessary risk? But, for fuck's sake, dude, if she's going to come with you then give your girlfriend - and your baby - the bloody protections!

Anyway, don't worry. This is the UK. People might be judging you from a distance, but they'll be too polite to say anything.

[gilesgoat]

*SNIP*
Anyway, don't worry. This is the UK. People might be judging you from a distance, but they'll be too polite to say anything.

.. and when asked "How do you think I am doing ?" they'll reply "Oh you are doing just fine dear ! "