The Apple thread

[Rod_S]

Another one you might not know is command-shift-click a Dock icon to reveal it in the Finder. Useful if you have a document window minimised and need to get to the location of the original file.

[Rod_S]

Photoshop on a 30" Cinema Display:

Spoiler: show

Suck it!

[piku]

I do suspect Apple make intentionally poor use of screen acreage to stimulate sales of their gigantic monitors. I have a 17" iMac and things get very cluttered, very quickly, and it's not helped by the fact that you just can't get a fresh screen to work in for each major application, like you can in Windows (you know, the background window thing).

Yes, but that's one of Windows worst features. The grey space between and around document windows is just wasted

No, it's not. It declutters the screen, letting you focus easily on the task at hand.

Sure, your computer is capable of having a web browser, IRC client, email, photoshop and Word all running at the same time, with neat multi-monitor friendly windows that fit their content... but people don't work that way. You don't put a sheet of paper on top of the mess on your desk and attempt to write on it, you first clear a space and then begin working. I don't want to see my IRC client when I'm working, if it's got something important to say then I expect it to Growl at me, or boing its icon.

The big "wasted" grey space around your Word document makes it physically impossible to be distracted by other stuff on your screen that you're not really interested in. I can't be the only person who finds a Mac desktop full of windows really confusing to look at.

And Word on a 30" screen just looks lost and stupid. Most of your screen is going to be wasted, or filled with distracting prattle. And how much time is wasted arranging things on the giant screens? Hitting "maximise" takes no effort. But shuffling "perfectly sized" windows around to make the most use of a giant screen must get pretty boring pretty quickly - "right, I've booted up, now to arrange all my windows how I like them... again, just like I did yesterday".

But hey, this viewpoint is trying to fight a losing battle. Pixels are becoming cheaper, people are being wowed by huge screens and then thinking their "tiny" 20" screens are unusable. Yes, graphic designers and suchlike probably do find giant screens useful (but heaven forbid they could ever do their job before!).

I think we need a new UI metaphor for these huge screens. It's no longer a "desktop", it's a wallapaper pasting table, kitchen worktop or boardroom table. And should be treated as something with defineable zones - create a "chat" area where all the chat apps live, an "office" area where wordprocessors, etc live, and a "scratch" area for random apps. Maximising a window to full screen is a bit nuts, but then again so is trying to use a screen so large you have to move your head for "normal" apps.

[Firefox]

Maximising a window to full screen is a bit nuts, but then again so is trying to use a screen so large you have to move your head for "normal" apps.

I run emacs fullscreen.

[Rod_S]

I run most of my apps full screen - iTunes is ace because the album cover art in cover flow is CD sized and I can see loads of tracks without scrolling; full screen pdf browsing is lovely for looking at ebooks and instruction manuals; most of the day's new posts will be visible in my Usenet app, I can't think of a single app that isn't improved on this screen.

I'm calling Apple/penis envy on this one.

[phattslagg]

Big screens are handy for musicians, too - some plugins have pretty large GUIs, and it can be handy to have a few different editing screens open at once, so you can select the notes you want, say in the score window, and then choose to edit them in the matrix editor or event list,depending on what is most convenient. You can save these configurations to the numeric keys for instant recall, so no time need be wasted on re-organising the windows every time you work.

30" FTW! (although I'll have to settle for a 24" when I finally acquire full macwankerhood later this year.)

[pogo]

Yes, but that's one of Windows worst features. The grey space between and around document windows is just wasted

No, it's not. It declutters the screen, letting you focus easily on the task at hand.

Sure, your computer is capable of having a web browser, IRC client, email, photoshop and Word all running at the same time, with neat multi-monitor friendly windows that fit their content... but people don't work that way. You don't put a sheet of paper on top of the mess on your desk and attempt to write on it, you first clear a space and then begin working. I don't want to see my IRC client when I'm working, if it's got something important to say then I expect it to Growl at me, or boing its icon.

You haven't seen my desk - clearing a space is not an option.

The human brain multitasks very well. You watch TV while having a conversation, drive or read a paper while listening to the radio. Even read a paper and listen to music while walking to work. Sometimes you want no other distractions - you turn off the TV or radio, or on a PC maximise the window.

But other times you want to monitor a compile, a download or a playing MP3 file while working on something else. You might want to know how much longer something will take, not be told after it's finished. And such an alert is far more likely to break your concentration or be missed if it is not too subtle or disabled because it is annoying. That is if there's an alert at all: neither Visual Studio or Perforce, the main programs I work with, tell me when they are done unless I watch them.

[sty]

It's like fast computers, you get used to 30" screens really quickly and end up hating anything smaller. I've had one for a good 3 years now

I think dual monitors is more use to me than one big one. I thought having one large widescreen would replace my two 17" screen setup. I was wrong. I now have a 24" widescreen and a 19" 4:3 next to each other, but I could probably get away with two 19" 4:3 screens really.

reading this thread it does seem to be that you are either in the huge screen (many screens) camp or your not (I'm guessing these people would love virtual desktops to organise their work).

Personally I'm in the huge screen camp.

I have twin 19" TFTs here at home, nothing special just VGAs running at 1280x1024 each and I love them, I'd upgrade to a single 30" Cinema (or Dell) screen in a heartbeat to get rid of the gap between the monitors and also centralise my displays. I've just started using "Screens" in Leopard at the moment so I would probably still run that on a 30" display.

At work I run a laptop (piddly 14" screen) with an external 17" and I would so want to replace that with a 30" screen to make it easier on my eyes, I spend a lot of time drawing A3 Visio diagrams and it would be so much easier on a 30" screen. Saying that I'm tempted with a MacBook Air and a 24" external screen though as it can't take a 30"

I'm on the verge of buying my own monitor for work at the moment, if I could find a legit way to buy a 30" from Dell before Tax I'd spend some of my bonus in an instant.

[tufty]

Yes, but that's one of Windows worst features. The grey space between and around document windows is just wasted

No, it's not. It declutters the screen, letting you focus easily on the task at hand.

Sure, your computer is capable of having a web browser, IRC client, email, photoshop and Word all running at the same time, with neat multi-monitor friendly windows that fit their content... but people don't work that way. You don't put a sheet of paper on top of the mess on your desk and attempt to write on it, you first clear a space and then begin working. I don't want to see my IRC client when I'm working, if it's got something important to say then I expect it to Growl at me, or boing its icon.

You haven't seen my desk - clearing a space is not an option.

I'm with pogo on this one, but it's largely down to the way I work - I'm forever flitting between apps : generally a text editor and 5 or 6 terminal windows, a browser and a bunch of preview windows for documentation; there's generally a bit of each window visible so I can easily bring them to the foreground, terminals with stuff running have the bottom of the wndow visible so I can see whether they have finished or not. Some people can work with one fullscreen window, but I can't.

Applications that go full screen automatically drive me nuts, so you can probably guess how much I *love* Windows. It's extremely rare that an app actually needs to go fullscreen; I've been in love with OSX's "maximise to fit the content" metaphor since it came out. I'd go to a bigger screen in a heartbeat (I currently have an Apple 20" CRT hooked up to my mini) but a second monitor would make me very happy.

Simon

[HGFB]

I spent over three hours last night converting xvids to mp4 so I could play them on my Touch. I didn't have to. I could have just copied them onto my Cowon A2 and played them straight but I didn't.

I hate you all.

[gravy]

And Word on a 30" screen just looks lost and stupid. Most of your screen is going to be wasted, or filled with distracting prattle. And how much time is wasted arranging things on the giant screens? Hitting "maximise" takes no effort. But shuffling "perfectly sized" windows around to make the most use of a giant screen must get pretty boring pretty quickly - "right, I've booted up, now to arrange all my windows how I like them... again, just like I did yesterday".

I generally have the app I'm using at the forefront, the size I want.

You're right about Word not being able to take advantage of the entire screen, when you're in layout mode the page size is going to be the same proportions as a piece of A4. And that's fine. I generally have word on the left of the screen and stuff I'm gather information to make the document on the right; either a browser, excel sheet, my todo list etc.

And some activities are a lot easier with acres of screen space; Excel, coding, 2D art production, music composition, 3d modelling.

Honestly, this is a really weird thread. People moaning about a piece of equipment they've never worked on while those who are using one love it to bits One more vote for LCD penis envy from me

[tufty]

One more vote for LCD penis envy from me :D

If you have a limp and crumpled dick, may I suggest the hitting refresh thread?

[amanset]

Yes, but that's one of Windows worst features. The grey space between and around document windows is just wasted

No, it's not. It declutters the screen, letting you focus easily on the task at hand.

Sure, your computer is capable of having a web browser, IRC client, email, photoshop and Word all running at the same time, with neat multi-monitor friendly windows that fit their content... but people don't work that way. You don't put a sheet of paper on top of the mess on your desk and attempt to write on it, you first clear a space and then begin working. I don't want to see my IRC client when I'm working, if it's got something important to say then I expect it to Growl at me, or boing its icon.

You haven't seen my desk - clearing a space is not an option.

I agree. Also Piku's analogy isn't quite correct. The Windows method of having a window take up the screen with loads of grey around it is analogous to clearing your entire desk just to put a single sheet of paper down in the middle of it. I don't know about you but I certainly don't do that, instead just pushing a few things to the side.

[korruptor]

Maximising a window to full screen is a bit nuts, but then again so is trying to use a screen so large you have to move your head for "normal" apps.

I run emacs fullscreen.

Oh yes, with 8 panes and a shell. That's one method of coding I'd never be without

I'm on a 30" atm, and I'm still using 3 of the desktops Spaces provides. Everything's nicely laid out, one screen for mail, chat apps and IRC. One for xcode and two terminals, the other for Photoshop and iTunes. No faffing with windows and simple hotkeys to get to the view I want. It's much like how I used to use linux on the old Ilyama 19" monitors at Uni, except sharper and with more real estate. Win win, surely?!

Even with the super tiny pixels on the 17" MBP, it's really hard to be exactly as productive on a smaller screen. You run less, there's more start-stop time as you bounce around looking focusing stuff and you tend to close or hide apps more due to perceived clutter. If there's a rez or size bump on the Apple cinema displays I'd be handing my credit card to someone else to stop me from buying one. It's easily my fav bit of tech.

[seibu]

Ooh! My first Apple Thread post!

I just wanted to say - I'm sure that having stuff maximised is something the Windows UI encourages you into, probably because it's such a pain in the arse to resize and manipulate windows on that OS. I always used to have one thing at a time maximised in my Windows days. But since moving to OpenBox (linux) I've become a regular screen-chaos junkie. Now I flit with ease between my eight desktops, with tonnes of stuff open all over the place. And I get about ten times as much done.