Official Nintendo Fanboy Smugness & Gloating Thread

[IronGiant]

I think you're spot on here - it's clearly not going to be the gameplay revolution that some people are expecting it to be. It'll suit some games better than a joypad, but it definitely won't be better suited than a joypad for most games. So long as a game responds to some sort of symbolic input, the core part of the game remains unaffected by the Wii controller.

This raises a point that I keep meaning to mention here - for lazy/old fashioned/luddite gits like me who prefer the direction pad/button approach when playing games, is it likely that ALL Wii games will still allow the user to control a game with this 'ancient' control method instead of ending up doing credible impressions of Magnus Pyke ?

(for those of you unaware of of Pyke, he was an eccentric British scientist who madly waved his arms around when he spoke).

[Roobarb]

Like Darkflame said, i don't really see why DVD playback couldn't just be a paid for firmware download, like the web browser.

I can see them releasing a revised Wii with e.g. more flash memory, and controllers with rechargeable batteries at some point them. It's hard to see what value they'd add by changing the console form factor though (a la DS Lite / GBA SP).

it's clearly not going to be the gameplay revolution that some people are expecting it to be.

If it gets my mum playing with a console, it would be a revolution in Gameplay .

It'll suit some games better than a joypad, but it definitely won't be better suited than a joypad for most games.

My concern would be if it is less suited than a joypad for most games.

[Marius]

Problem lads?

"The Problem with Wii Sports"

http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN/2006/10/30/35384/

That's not the first hands-on that's left the reviewer wondering if the Wii really is the second coming of gaming. I'll be surprised if the Wii remote delivers the kind of immersive experience that the trailers have led us to believe, waving that thing around is just another method of hitting up/down/left/right, it's not actually translating your freestyle movements on screen is it? It's still waiting to receive your u/d/l/r instruction like any other pad, it's just that you're inputing those commands in a more extravagant and physical way with the Wii. With Red Steel you're not going to be virtually sword fighting, but rather trying to hit the pre-programmed sweet spots that trigger a command, and so on.

I really think the expectation and hype is going to far outweigh the reality of using it. No one has really questioned the Nintendo Wii hype machine, but the doubts are clearly starting to appear now.

The controller itself is definitely capable of handling this 1:1 movement, but as of yet, games haven't really taken advantage of things. Bowling received such high praise in this blog because it gave the impression that your movements were being directly translated into the movement of the ball. It's not a technical limitation, more a lack of imagination.

Did anyone here at yakyak actually think that the controller used in Wii sports would copy your movements 100% over to the ingame characters? I seriously doubt it, it's simply to far fetched so early in the lifespan of the machine. But the potential is hopefully there.

And the EDGE article on Zelda complete restored whatever small amount of faith I might have lost because of infidels criticizing the controls or graphics.

[Darkflame]

This raises a point that I keep meaning to mention here - for lazy/old fashioned/luddite gits like me who prefer the direction pad/button approach when playing games, is it likely that ALL Wii games will still allow the user to control a game with this 'ancient' control method instead of ending up doing credible impressions of Magnus Pyke

As as been said almost infintely, its not that big a movements nesscery.

Also, its been said a few times now, merely the fact that the controller is split up, means it can be held in an actualy more laid back way.

but it definitely won't be better suited than a joypad for most games.

Says you.

You got 3 axi's of tilt, and 1024/1024 (?) screen position input, as well as whatever their forward/back/left/right sensoring precision is.
You got 9 buttons (yawn).

And thats just on one pad.
The nunchuck got another analogue input, another 3 axi's of tilt, and another 2 buttons.

Any developer that cant make their game work with all that choice, and make it work better then what they would have without the choice, is just plan useless.

Joypads are ancient now, and while the Wiimote wont be perfect by any means, its a quantom-leap in a better direction.

bowling received such high praise in this blog because it gave the impression that your movements were being directly translated into the movement of the ball. It's not a technical limitation, more a lack of imagination.

More that it would add to development time I think, and the early games didnt have that time.
Theres probably a heck of a lot of skill and subtly to dealing with the wiimotes inputs. And then theres the problem of 1:1 matching of movement, needs smarter game code as well. (this more applys to games were two things contact eachother....Red Steal with realer sword movements would need much smarter cpu charecters).

That said, baseball (bet) was also supposed to be close to 1:1.

[phattslagg]

Perhaps a good example of why direct movement-translation isn't such a great idea for sports games is Darts from 42CG DS.

Whilst it's obviously not the same as throwing a real dart, it's just about as bloody hard, if not harder than the real thing - and this with a static target and identical starting conditions for every throw. The result is a game which, whilst fiercely addictive (for me, at least) is practically impossible to master, and relies heavily on luck.

I think it makes total sense to dumb a game like Wii Tennis down for a release title - maybe as the platform matures, more refined examples of the genre will be developed, but I'm happy for things to start off nice and easy. What is really going to excite people with this game is getting a decent rally going without having to practice it obsessively in a locked room for 3 weeks first. Many a good game has been rendered useless in multi-player mode for this reason, as the discrepancy between me and other potential players like the g/f is far too great after only a short while of owning it.

All I'm hoping for is that the Wii proves to be a platform which both my g/f and my 4 yr old daughter can get as much enjoyment from as me. The GC was an utter flop in this regard (in our household) - the controller being one of the main reasons, and if I want to play solo, I'd rather it be on my DS, since using it doesn't tie up the tv.

[grue]

I agree with almost everyone here. That doesn't mean that I don't expect my Wii like crazy anymore.

Cheap(ish), fun, and doesn't press you to buy aditional equipment worth hundreds of euros to enjoy it fully. The launch titles seem to be the best of the crop so far and some of the ideas look like they can be instant classics.

What more can a gamer want?

[Deckard]

Another Microsoft bungle

http://www.t3.co.uk/news/247/entertainm ... ch_delayed

[Bubba]

but it definitely won't be better suited than a joypad for most games.

Says you.

You got 3 axi's of tilt, and 1024/1024 (?) screen position input, as well as whatever their forward/back/left/right sensoring precision is.
You got 9 buttons (yawn).

And thats just on one pad.
The nunchuck got another analogue input, another 3 axi's of tilt, and another 2 buttons.

Any developer that cant make their game work with all that choice, and make it work better then what they would have without the choice, is just plan useless.

Joypads are ancient now, and while the Wiimote wont be perfect by any means, its a quantom-leap in a better direction.

Spoken like a true fanboi Including bollocks facts-o-clock

Not that I'm not excited about the Wii or anything, but stuff like that really doesn't help

Cheers

Bubba

[DocDaneeka]

but it definitely won't be better suited than a joypad for most games.

Says you.

You got 3 axi's of tilt, and 1024/1024 (?) screen position input, as well as whatever their forward/back/left/right sensoring precision is.
You got 9 buttons (yawn).

And thats just on one pad.
The nunchuck got another analogue input, another 3 axi's of tilt, and another 2 buttons.

Any developer that cant make their game work with all that choice, and make it work better then what they would have without the choice, is just plan useless.

Joypads are ancient now, and while the Wiimote wont be perfect by any means, its a quantom-leap in a better direction.

So you had a go on one then? It could just be like an Eyetoy, fun every now and then but overall not as good as a nice Dualshock/Wavebird. Of course since it has the traditional buttons & stick sort of controls it should be fun, but as for the pointing and waving Ill have to reserve judgement.

[Samus]

The thing with Tennis is that is was never about your movements matching your avatar's movements on screen - but instead - your movements matching the actual actions in the game. What Matt says is this:

Take, for example, Wii Sports Tennis. *1 You don't control anything except the swing of your player's racket. The movement of these Mii-alike athletes is all done automatically by the game. You simply swing the Wii remote back and forth to make your on-screen character do the same thing. 2* You can even control the power of your shots. Nothing to it and true enough, most of the time it all works and feels just fine. You swing the racket and your motion is reflected on the tennis court. 3* However, ether I'm completely missing something or sometimes the directions and motion of your swings goes ignored. You might swing your racket to the left, for instance, and the ball will go flying off to the right, anyway.

*1 this is what we've known from the start.

*2 which is great and exactly the correct kind of Wiimote use.

*3 it sure looks like he is missing something. There is a practise field (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/topics/in ... vie06.html) for aiming your shots in the game, I seriously doubt that Nintendo would fuck it up and then include and promote a practise field where you can point and laugh how it sometimes aims the shot randomly. Also, Miyamoto has stressed in many reviews how the deepness in Wii Tennis comes from learning to master the power and angle of the shots. AND, if you SWING your RACKET to the LEFT the ball can still GO to the RIGHT if you are not careful with the ANGLE. These kind of overlooks are typical of Matt from IGN.

Ota

Ok. As someone who has always developed "traditional" games, I knew that Tennis would have to contain those deeper elements that would appeal to gamers. The first such idea I had was that the ball's movements could be altered by the way the player swings the controller, be that a slice, a topspin shot, or whatever.

Iwata

That still surprises me. I'm still not completely sure how the movement of the ball can vary so much, just through a swing of the Wii Remote.


Ota

To put it simply, it's because we put a lot of thought into it! (laughs)
Iwata Are there any other elements in the game that add to its depth?

Ota

The fundamental factor giving the game depth comes from the fact that there is such a huge level of variation in the controls. So much in fact, that you could probably say it's impossible to hit the same shot twice. As the data picked up by the Wii concerning how you moved your wrist and the angle you turned the controller is all analogue, if you hit the ball 100 times, that action is going to be reflected on the screen in 100 different ways. What I'm saying is that every time you play, the conditions will be slightly different. The player can enjoy trying out different strokes to see what happens, constantly learning in a sensory way. I think it will take a long time for the player to get the hang of all of the movements, and the process of feeling oneself improve at the game is really enjoyable for the player.

Yep.

I'm testing the Wii and Wii Sports myself at the end of this week, I hope I can use my video camera. A full audiovisual report (hopefully) coming up!

[xav]

There is a practise field (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/topics/in ... vie06.html) for aiming your shots in the game

Oooh, I hadn't seen that vid before. Someone really needs to write a Breakouty Arkanoidy game for the Wii in a tennis style. Perhaps with bonus levels of "traditional" Breakout using the controller in pointer mode to move the paddle around.

[Yak]

There is a practise field (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/topics/in ... vie06.html) for aiming your shots in the game

Oooh, I hadn't seen that vid before. Someone really needs to write a Breakouty Arkanoidy game for the Wii in a tennis style. Perhaps with bonus levels of "traditional" Breakout using the controller in pointer mode to move the paddle around.

haha, that would be ace . Playing Breakout/Arkanoid with a swingable racket would be so cool .

[Roobarb]

The Woz would approve wholeheartedly I'm sure

From what Samus posted it definitely sounds like IGNMatt has little idea how to play tennis. I'm favouring user error right now.

[Darkflame]

but it definitely won't be better suited than a joypad for most games.

Says you.

You got 3 axi's of tilt, and 1024/1024 (?) screen position input, as well as whatever their forward/back/left/right sensoring precision is.
You got 9 buttons (yawn).

And thats just on one pad.
The nunchuck got another analogue input, another 3 axi's of tilt, and another 2 buttons.

Any developer that cant make their game work with all that choice, and make it work better then what they would have without the choice, is just plan useless.

Joypads are ancient now, and while the Wiimote wont be perfect by any means, its a quantom-leap in a better direction.

Spoken like a true fanboi Including bollocks facts-o-clock

Are yes, "fanboy", the word used when people cant come up with a proper arguement.
Was any of the facts I said wrong? Im not sure of the res of the wiimote, the 1024x1024 was based off the chip stats. (hence the "?")

Seriously, why wont the controller by more suitable for most games? Why is this "definite" ?
You think the second analogue stick will be badly missed?
Or the need for 6 or so more buttons?
Rationalise your own argument before claiming someone else's is fanboy based.

My view is not that the Wii remote is perfect, or brillent.

Quite the reverse...its that existing pads are utter utter crapshit.
We only accept them because we are used too them.
Humans are amazingly good at adapting to things, we have adapted to the pads we have been brought up with.
The Wiimote is better because its got more inputs, and more ways for a developer to use it.

Really, pressing a complex button combo to make a charecter leap into the air and do a few drop-kicks. You honeslty think games are going to be stuck like that for the rest of time?

The Wii isnt the perfect controller by a long shot, in fact, its the most imperfect controller of a new generation of controllers.
The next-next generation will be really interesting,because thats when we see both what worked with the wiimote, and what didnt...and also there will be a heck of a lot more investiment towards its ideas.

So you had a go on one then? It could just be like an Eyetoy, fun every now and then but overall not as good as a nice Dualshock/Wavebird. Of course since it has the traditional buttons & stick sort of controls it should be fun, but as for the pointing and waving Ill have to reserve judgement.

Well, you answered it right there.

I was argueing against the view it would be worse,or no better, for most games.
I know its not going to be worse for "most games", precisely because, as you say, its got tradional buttons and stick as well.

There is far more potential inputs on the wiimote, both traditional, and new, then any other controll pad.
If developers cant work out the best way to use and mix them, thats their fault not the controllers.

They have more choice then with any other controller. Thats what makes it better.

Yes, there is one analogue stick missing.
Yes, there is a few less buttons.

But personaly, I think your crazy if you dont think the wiimote is worth losing a analogue stick over

[Roobarb]

But personaly, I think your crazy if you dont think the wiimote is worth losing a analogue stick over

I really liked the way the 2nd analogue stick (yellow) was used in Pikmin, Mario, Zelda etc on the cube to control the 3d camera view. I hate braindead automatic cameras. How does LoZ:TP allow you to rotate the camera view on the Wii, or does it just rely on an automatic camera?