The Sony PS3 thread (apparently *still* obnoxious!)

[Bubba]

Hmm, can't say I particularly agree with anything you've said. I certainly don't see this division between "video" and "computer" games. In the slightest

Cheers

Bubba

[Hajile]

Hmm, can't say I particularly agree with anything you've said. I certainly don't see this division between "video" and "computer" games. In the slightest

Cheers

Bubba

Fair enough. There's bound to be people that do, though. Half Life 2 belongs on a console about as much as Croc belongs on a PC. I'm just giving each a term that makes the most sense to me.

[WiredWorm]

I'm confused. How does a person decide where a video game 'belongs'?

As we all know Half Life 2 is already in development for both the 360 and the PS3. Are you suggesting that the title shouldn't be developed? Or do you feel it will be a lesser title? Or maybe you don't feel it'll be as good as the PC version?

I don't fully understand what you're saying - for me the deciding factor for any game is pretty simple - it basically comes down to if the game is fun to play or not.

I understand that playing a game on the PC is often a different experience to playing the same game on a console. There are obvious variances in controller schemes - but in my case the more noticable difference is that when playing on the Console I can slump back on the sofa with a wireless controller and play on a nice 42" LCD Panel which is hung on the wall.

It has little to do with the console and more to do with it's environment.

[Bubba]

Half Life 2 belongs on a console about as much as Croc belongs on a PC.

Why? It's a first person shooter, and a very linear one at that! Looking at your own list, HL 2 is a very linear experience - pretty much 1 path through every level in fact. As for the scope and size of half life 2, scope wise it's pretty simple. Save the world by shooting things. And I'd argue that part of making a game "good" is not giving away more of scope or size than you have to - they should both be discovered without feeling walled in or dwarfed within the game. I can't comment on how "cerebral" the game feels, because for me at least they both feel the same.

And HL2 did pretty well on the xbox .

Cheers

Bubba

[gilesgoat]

Well .. it certainly would save me lot of coding time if H. would say that
Space Giraffe does not belong to PC

[Anders]

Fair enough. There's bound to be people that do, though. Half Life 2 belongs on a console about as much as Croc belongs on a PC. I'm just giving each a term that makes the most sense to me.

An artificial difference that doesn't make any logical sense and means nothing. Fine! If that sort of thing makes you happy, then go for it.

[Yak]

Well .. it certainly would save me lot of coding time if H. would say that
Space Giraffe does not belong to PC

Dude, we are more Arcade *than* arcades are these days .

[Roobarb]

Besides, shouldn't that be going in the Wii thread? I know I mentioned the Wii, but it was simply to back up my general frustration with all aspects of the new generation of consoles, not so people could turn the PS3 thread into another 'Wii is teh cool' thread.

Nah, it's not really anything to do with Wii as such, i just chose this an extreme example. You seem to be arguing that new consoles are crap because they are looking to cater to new ways of playing games and new audiences. I fundamentally disagree. The huge growth in console sales has been driven by them catering for new audiences (be it 'PC gamers', whatever they are, or 'casual gamer's, whatever they are, or girls/grandparents or whoever didn't get off on the type of games you're into). The PS2 would have sold nowhere near the numbers it has if it hadn't been many things to many people. If you had your way consoles would occupy the same kind of narrow niche as Games Workshop, which strikes me as a very limited horizon.

You can't really compare the games library of established consoles well into their late middle age vs new consoles with hardly any installed base. Once they get into their stride there'll plenty of choice available no matter what your preferences are.

Hmm, Maybe I should have posted that rant of mine in a new thread...

It probably deserved a thread of its own, yeah.

[Hajile]

I'm confused. How does a person decide where a video game 'belongs'?

As we all know Half Life 2 is already in development for both the 360 and the PS3. Are you suggesting that the title shouldn't be developed? Or do you feel it will be a lesser title? Or maybe you don't feel it'll be as good as the PC version?

I don't fully understand what you're saying - for me the deciding factor for any game is pretty simple - it basically comes down to if the game is fun to play or not.

I understand that playing a game on the PC is often a different experience to playing the same game on a console. There are obvious variances in controller schemes - but in my case the more noticable difference is that when playing on the Console I can slump back on the sofa with a wireless controller and play on a nice 42" LCD Panel which is hung on the wall.

It has little to do with the console and more to do with it's environment.

You're right in that the most important thing to bear in mind is if the game is fun, of course. And I'm not suggesting console versions of HL2 shouldn't be developed, just that it's a game that is better suited to play on a PC. Naturally, when talking about how games make you feel while playing, personal opinion and, indeed, environment play a part. But yes, I feel that Half Life 2 on a console would not, perhaps, make a lesser game, but it would make for a lesser experience. It's less important than it was, certainly, because home consoles are capable of much the same as PCs these days, but the distinction is still there, as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe I am alone in seeing the distinction, but playing Devil May Cry 3 on PC just wouldn't feel right to me. It's a videogame, not a computer game, so if I was to play it, I'd prefer it to be on console. I guess the same could be said for watching a movie at home compared to in a cinema. Same film, different venue, different impression. Doesn't mean I won't buy the DVD, but I'll understand how the experience can be lessened by the translation.

An artificial difference that doesn't make any logical sense and means nothing. Fine! If that sort of thing makes you happy, then go for it.

Now, why are you getting so worked up about this? It's a personal perspective on gaming, with no malice or ill will behind it, not a challenge to a 'your opinions suck' competition.

Besides, I've explained in great detail why I believe the distinction is there, citing examples and elaborating on things in every way, yet because you disagree, then it's illogical and makes no sense?

Grow up.

[Darkflame]

PC's have different "standard" controlls to consoles, and different lengths of time you would invest playing them. (your unlikely to have have a quick "burst" of gameing on a pc).

So certainly some games suit consoles more then pc's and visa versa.

But for most games theres nothing fundimental that puts it on one or the other, its all a mater of how well it is designed to fit one set of controlls.

For instance, PC's have an advantage in FPS games, because a mouse gives more accurate and faster controlls then dual-analogue could hope too.
In theory, the Wiimote can provide as good, if not better, controlls when looking at its technical abilitys. But that dosnt mean at all that games developers will actualy use it in its best way.
It might forever get "dumbed down" FPS controlls precisely because its on a console, and thus not hardcore enough. (as dumb that that logic goes).
I simerla thing could go for RTS games as well, consoles are seen as "lighter" entertainment, so dont get heaver stratergys even if the controlls become suitable.
(Pikmin is fantastic, of course, but Id still say its fairly light)

[Darkflame]

I don't need to be taught how to use a pad. I never did -

Go and give a non-gamer a Xbox360 pad and let them try to work it out.
Its fucking impossible for anyone to get a grasp on modern pads quickly.

The D pad? The Dpad is the least of the problems. Its all about the buttons!

Going from Nes style pads and slower upwards we have slowly been introduced, and gotten instinctive understanding. (A=confirm, B=cancel...ect). But to newcomers its overwealming.


The Wiimote has to be taught a heck of a lot less then any button-intenstive controller.

"How do I aim?"
"you aim"
"How to I play tennis"
"pretend its a tennis racket"
"How to I slash my sword?"
"flick your wrist"
ect.

If you dont understand the Wii remote first go, you are, quite simply, mentaly retarded.

That dosnt mean everything is *easy to master* but thats a completely different issue to understand the controlls.

* = The habit of tilting and turning the pad while playing, for example, driving and flying games, thinking that it gives you an advantage but instead makes you look like a pillock.

Which is exactly whythe wiimote dosnt have to be taught or learnt.
A well designed Wii game will be instinctive.


---

oh, and dismissing Metroid, Mario and Super Monkey Ball because they are sequals seems kinda deseperate for your argument.
(so there goes MGS, Final Fantasy, GT, Halo3 et all on revil consoles).

Just because something is sequal dosnt mean it cant be a hell of a lot better then games that are (supposed) to be original just because they invented a new "cool" charecter.

The Nintendo Wii has many games, and they actualy outnumber the minigame based ones if you actualy bother looking at release line ups.

[Guru-Meditation]

As we all know Half Life 2 is already in development for both the 360 and the PS3. Are you suggesting that the title shouldn't be developed? Or do you feel it will be a lesser title? Or maybe you don't feel it'll be as good as the PC version?

Can't help but feel that the main reason Valve are porting HL2 to the 360/PS3 is to get the Source engine converted Potential sales are just a side benefit.

[Anders]

Now, why are you getting so worked up about this? It's a personal perspective on gaming, with no malice or ill will behind it, not a challenge to a 'your opinions suck' competition.

I didn't say your opinions sucked, but you're of course aware of that already. It is indeed a personal opinion on where games "belong", which is why it means nothing to anyone else but yourself.

Besides, I've explained in great detail why I believe the distinction is there, citing examples and elaborating on things in every way, yet because you disagree, then it's illogical and makes no sense?

No, your explanations didn't make any logical sense.

[Marius]

Yeah, the rant about computer games vs video games didn't really have a lot of valid points. Perhaps ten years ago, but not today.

In the end it all boils down to what kind of controls you use, and in that regard I'll be the first to admit that a FPS plays a helluva lot better on a PC because of the mouse/keyboard combination. But Wii is erasing this line as we speak, perhaps even improving on it.

And if you, like me, have hooked up your PC to the same HDTV you use for console games, and if you also use the 360 pad, there is no reason why you shouldn't have exactly the same experience on either PC or on a console. I've played Beyond Good and Evil, Legacy of Kain, Psychonauts and several other "console" games this way on my PC. The difference in the experiences were minimal.

And calling console games more linear is pure bollocks. Sure, the PC might have more strategy games, but modern RPG's on consoles usually have a lot more freedom and choices than games like HL2, which I felt was very linear.

Consoles and PC's are closing the gap for every generation that passes. These days the Wii is the only console that offers something truly unique and, IMO, interesting.

[Bubba]

Consoles and PC's are closing the gap for every generation that passes. These days the Wii is the only console that offers something truly unique and, IMO, interesting.

I'd disagree with that, given that the PC can offer the same experience with suitable controls. Videogames consoles have always been computers - they are now even more similar due to the additional functions that they offer.

Cheers

Bubba