The Sony PS3 thread (apparently *still* obnoxious!)

[Snakey]

Well I didn't see either of those. But I've got them already and I'm not ready to shell out $$$ just to have them again. Need more.

[tufty]

Yes, miss the point why don't you.

Okay, I was taking the piss. And now I'm a bit drunk, which will help matters, I'm sure. Maybe I should apologise in advance.

First off, an observation. You seem to be on a mighty downer with the PS3, both here and in the cell thread. I don't know why, you work in the gaming industry so presumably there's something, but it's not something I see myself. Maybe you're under an NDA or something so you can't come out with something concrete, but as it stands you're looking like a reverse fanboy. I know you're not an idiot, and so do most of the people on here, which is probably why people are still bothering to argue as opposed to walking away and saying "meh". As it stands, pretty much everything you have come out with regarding the PS3 has turned out to be not only false, but also easily shown to be false with even cursory research.

Personally, I'm no fan of Sony (and, in particular, SCEE) either, for reasons of my own. In a way, I hope that the PS3 fails, and, at the moment, there is bugger all that would make me go out and slap down the cash to get one. The same goes for 360, too. Wii, on the other hand, has me all wet in the crotch. As they say.

For me, the "next generation" of gaming will be a Wii. There may be a second console in there, but it will have to wait, and it will have to do an awful lot more than either of the other two have shown themselves capable of thus far. Not in terms of horsepower, both of them have it in spades. Not even in terms of technical advances, all consoles get better releases as time goes on. They are going to have to break whole new paradigm barriers that I probably don't even know exist yet before they even get a look-in. As it stands, PS3 looks to me to stand more chance of doing that. And it may do so merely due to market impact, Sony are still the company, Playstation is still the name. Not many people were blogging about picking up a 360 on launch day even though they hated all the games, were they?

Sure, there must be a (technical) level at which one cannot go on the PS3 using linux, Sony would be insane for it to be otherwise. But I don't know what it is, you don't know what it is. There's no point guessing. As gravy points out, it may well be that the framebufer-only thing is nvidia-related; hell, my 1998 powerbook is open-firmware framebuffer only in linux unless I dual-boot it one way or another. Doesn't necessarily mean that Apple are "teh evli", just that the linux-only boot code is crap...

So.

What's your real beef with PS3?

Simon

[gravy]

Hahaha some tit's got XP running on it under an emulator:

http://ps3mods.blogspot.com/2006/11/win ... xqemu.html

[radio]

Yes, miss the point why don't you.

Given that on every other sony platform they have tried very bloody hard to make sure that homebrew coders could not do very much, and given that allowing you to do anything on the PS3 will make it a damn sight easier to hack, it's fair to say they are not going to let you do whatever the hell you want with it. And we've already seen that they're not. So what's the problem? There's no need to be such an arse about it.

afaik

Yaroze only limited CD access.

PS2 + linux kit isn't very different to PS2TOOL, the only real difference is that you only get 6 out of 7 manuals, slim developer support, no 'proper' debugging/profiling tools (other than printf:p), no double RAM mode and you can only distribute to other Linux kit users.

That's not really all that limiting at all.

Sony's been much more friendly towards homebrew than either Nintendo or Microsoft (so far, XNA *might* change things)

[Snakey]

First off, an observation. You seem to be on a mighty downer with the PS3, both here and in the cell thread.

Not really. As I already said in this thread, I'm not saying it's not a good machine. In fact I think I said I don't think ANYONE is saying that. But it is massively overhyped, just like all Sony hardware before it has been. It's not like 90% of the people in this thread weren't taking the piss before somebody decided to jump on me for doing the same.

In fact all I was trying to do was to get OBSAK to justify what he said. "Ooh it plays games, it's a PC". But he's already got multiple PCs and he's already got multiple consoles. So I pointed out that perhaps what he's already got might do what he wants to do better.

I don't see why any of that is "false".

Sony are still the company, Playstation is still the name.

Yes. It's mostly hype.

Sure, there must be a (technical) level at which one cannot go on the PS3 using linux, Sony would be insane for it to be otherwise. But I don't know what it is, you don't know what it is.

Exactly. This is all I was saying. But that isn't good enough for some people so I have an example of something they'd done before with the PS1 - restrict access to the drive - as something they might have done. I dunno why I get such an ear bashing for that personally.

As gravy points out, it may well be that the framebufer-only thing is nvidia-related

It may be, but if nVidia wrote the drivers that devs will be using, seems strange they couldn't port their Linux drivers over too. And if Sony wrote them - same holds.

Doesn't necessarily mean that Apple are "teh evli"

...and I never said the same about Sony, either. Restricting what you can do is perfectly understandable. Having said that, I doubt they care very much about Linux, they know it's not a selling point for 99% of people and is almost certainly only there for legal reasons (the 'homebrew' argument, and the 'it's a computer' tax dodge that they tried, and failed, previously.) Again, not 't3h evil'.

What's your real beef with PS3?

You'll notice that I've stuck up for Sony and the PSP multiple times. The PSP deserved to do better than it did, it's a nice little machine. Of all the people who constantly slag Sony even when they're not doing anything wrong, why is it me that gets picked on?

Sony's been much more friendly towards homebrew

Try telling that to PSP users. Also note that I also don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[Snakey]

Hahaha some tit's got XP running on it under an emulator:

http://ps3mods.blogspot.com/2006/11/win ... xqemu.html

Now that is funny

[tufty]

First off, an observation. You seem to be on a mighty downer with the PS3, both here and in the cell thread.

Not really. As I already said in this thread, I'm not saying it's not a good machine. In fact I think I said I don't think ANYONE is saying that. But it is massively overhyped, just like all Sony hardware before it has been. It's not like 90% of the people in this thread weren't taking the piss before somebody decided to jump on me for doing the same.

Well, most of the pisstaking was done pre-launch by people that aren't entirely trusted, I think you'll find. You probably only got jumped on because people know you know better. That's certainly the case from my side of things. Bit of a "don't be a cunt, Snakey" moment, which you followed with more of the same. At which point I started wondering if it was actually covering something you couldn't, legally, say.

Sony are still the company, Playstation is still the name.

Yes. It's mostly hype.

Oh yes. Very much so. Still, the market is driven at least as much by hype as by reality. Sad, but true.

Sure, there must be a (technical) level at which one cannot go on the PS3 using linux, Sony would be insane for it to be otherwise. But I don't know what it is, you don't know what it is.

Exactly. This is all I was saying. But that isn't good enough for some people so I have an example of something they'd done before with the PS1 - restrict access to the drive - as something they might have done. I dunno why I get such an ear bashing for that personally.

Because it was so obviously and easily-verifiably false, I think, as well as the way in which it was said. People in general, and certainly I, expect more from you. Hell, I'm only some cunt that works in web development, and I knew it wasn't true when you posted it.

It would have been much safer to simply say that there will be major limits as to what you can do, maybe point out what the limits were on previous generations.

For the rest of it, I'm largely in agreement with you, FWIW. You only got jumped on because we love you, or something. You cunt.

Simon

[Snakey]

You cunt.

[tufty]

Hahaha some tit's got XP running on it under an emulator:

http://ps3mods.blogspot.com/2006/11/win ... xqemu.html

Now that is funny

Not as funny as the comments. How do these people manage to shit and breathe at the same time?

[edit]You cunt



Simon

[Marius]

And am I the only one thinking that the Wii is the only real next gen machine out there?

Yes, if you define next gen as relaunching your previous failure.

I really don't see the GC as a failure, at least not from a gamers perspective. Granted, it was a ugly sucker with way too few games and it didn't shift the numbers the PS2 did, perhaps deservedly so. But it still has given me some of the greatest gaming experiences of my life.

Even with all the PS2 games I can currently choose from, none of them has yet come close to TWW or Metroid Prime when it comes to giving me sheer enjoyment. Dragon Quest 8 is the game that so far has come the closest.

Graphics have, IMO, come to the point where they are more than adequate. What the xbox and PS2 are achieving these days is bloody impressive to say the least, so I have no problem with another three or four years of Wii quality graphics. I suspect Metroid Prime 3 will be one of the first games to show us the potential of the Wii.

It's a long time since I stopped being bothered with the number of polygons in a game. So yes, I consider the Wii to be the only true next-gen machine, from the view of a gamer that doesn't care about Blue-Ray and bling-bling, but innovation, gameplay and fun.

[Yak]

Gnn.. had a quick look at the supplement in Edge, just scanning rather than reading it fully...

Even the music visualiser, apparently, shows that Sony has a different approach from MS. Theirs, apparently, is smooth and blobby whereas the x360's is more bright and "angular". Oh, and there will be two more that you can download for the ps3!

COMPLETELY IGNORING THE LITTLE FACT THAT THE 360 HAS 100 DIFFERENT ONES BUILT IN... covering just about any range from angular to blobby that you care to seek... *mutter* *whinge*

*gnnnnn*....

[NorthWay]

Just to go out on a tangent, I saw a description of the hw and linux parts and the way they are split up.

Amazingly similar to our p570 AIX servers at work!
Virtualized everything and a Hypervisor between the OS and the real hw.
Not much doubt that IBM are building their parts from a common technology platform (and the next generation Power cpus will use much of the same chip techniques and ideas for high clockspeeds AFAIK).

[Hajile]

Gnn.. had a quick look at the supplement in Edge, just scanning rather than reading it fully...

Even the music visualiser, apparently, shows that Sony has a different approach from MS. Theirs, apparently, is smooth and blobby whereas the x360's is more bright and "angular". Oh, and there will be two more that you can download for the ps3!

COMPLETELY IGNORING THE LITTLE FACT THAT THE 360 HAS 100 DIFFERENT ONES BUILT IN... covering just about any range from angular to blobby that you care to seek... *mutter* *whinge*

*gnnnnn*....

Who cares? It's a console, all that matters is whether they're going to have lots of really good games that are worth playing.

Besides, it's a music player. They're utterly impossible to get wrong.

[Kronos]

Gnn.. had a quick look at the supplement in Edge, just scanning rather than reading it fully...

Even the music visualiser, apparently, shows that Sony has a different approach from MS. Theirs, apparently, is smooth and blobby whereas the x360's is more bright and "angular". Oh, and there will be two more that you can download for the ps3!

COMPLETELY IGNORING THE LITTLE FACT THAT THE 360 HAS 100 DIFFERENT ONES BUILT IN... covering just about any range from angular to blobby that you care to seek... *mutter* *whinge*

*gnnnnn*....

I wish I had a picture of you as you read that comment!!!

[Deckard]

Of course the 64k euro question for the Yak is will he be giving this a mention in his next Edge column......