Typhoon 2001

Flabio · Post by **Flabio** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:04 pm 0

So it was ok for someone to clone Geometry wars, but not Tempest 2k?

S'ok, just trying to set my moral compass to match the forums...

Dr Derek Doctors · Post by **Dr Derek Doctors** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:05 pm 0

Yeah, I'm guilty of a fair few remakes myself but I've always preferred those which expand on the original instead of just slavishly emulating it.

If I was "doing a Tempest" I'd certainly add in a bunch of new stuff because I've always found the game a little thin myself.

I'd encourage the author of Typhoon to take it forward and keep improving it.

gilesgoat · Post by **gilesgoat** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:07 pm 0

The Caffeine Kid wrote:There is a old saying that goes something like "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one" and it's true. Last time I checked arseholes were not illegal.

Depends, in which state are we talking

?

The fact is not illegal does not mean it's accepted

Anyway, I had a check in that forum and what the guy is saying ..

What to say him ? I dunno .. I mean from one side "fair play he did quite
a work to create something", from another side well .. maybe to get in
touch BEFORE to do anything like that would never be a bad idea.

He certainly has skills to do stuff so I am sure he could re-elaborate on
some ideas and create someting original, skills are certainly not missing.

I found a bit "disturbing" some posts in that forum but let's move on
I don't see the case to star a war because of a couple of posts.

I think that the moral of the story is "is never completely safe to retouch
things done by someone else" I mean yes of course you can do it but
feelings and results will always be mixed, some can be good some not
and you can't really blame parts for having them

At least when that someone else is still interested and caring for his/her
stuff, Theurer said long ago and more than once that he wasn't interested
at all in Tempest any more and did not want to have anyting to do with it.

T2K is quite a thing we can say "it's Minter" and everybody knows how
much that thing is loved and unfortunatelly it's even a game that had a
bit of "stories" attached not all of them good.

I think .. that the "bottom line" is "to avoid weird stuff" it's better to take
always "new directions" .. I am sure if one would make a <game> remake
the authors of <game> could have something to say and so on ...

I don't want to say/trash in the bin "all the retro remakes" but .. well ..
I just mean than "when something is still alive a bit of more carefulness is needed".

An email and a bit of chat costs nothing, can help lot.

matt · Post by **matt** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:08 pm 0

Flabio wrote:So it was ok for someone to clone Geometry wars, but not Tempest 2k?

My opinion/arsehole is that it's fine for anybody to clone anything as long as they don't try to profit from it.

gilesgoat · Post by **gilesgoat** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:08 pm 0

Flabio wrote:So it was ok for someone to clone Geometry wars, but not Tempest 2k?

S'ok, just trying to set my moral compass to match the forums...

No, it wasn't good as well, I think we state it clear.

gilesgoat · Post by **gilesgoat** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:09 pm 0

matt wrote:
Flabio wrote:So it was ok for someone to clone Geometry wars, but not Tempest 2k?
My opinion/arsehole is that it's fine for anybody to clone anything as long as they don't try to profit from it.

No, I disagree, it's not a sufficient condition.

It's not just a matter of money or not money really, let's call it "a moral matter".

nyarla · Post by **nyarla** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:10 pm 0

matt: well thats what making games is all about to me (not that ive gotten that far with it myself yet)... i reckon trying to remake a game can give a great impetus/direction to making the actual engine, but after that, why not make something totally your own with it

matt · Post by **matt** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:11 pm 0

gilesgoat wrote:I don't want to say/trash in the bin "all the retro remakes" but .. well ..
I just mean than "when something is still alive a bit of more carefulness is needed".

Giles has a good point there, it's quite easy for the remake to be better than the original. With Geometry Wars that was a concern as it was an on-the-shelf product, and with Space Giraffe I guess it's a worry because a T2K clone could take punters away from what is - at the moment, perceived by some to be - yet another Tempest. No offense meant

nyarla wrote:matt: well thats what making games is all about to me (not that ive gotten that far with it myself yet)... i reckon trying to remake a game can give a great impetus/direction to making the actual engine, but after that, why not make something totally your own with it

I agree 101%

matt

gilesgoat · Post by **gilesgoat** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:16 pm 0

matt wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:I don't want to say/trash in the bin "all the retro remakes" but .. well ..
I just mean than "when something is still alive a bit of more carefulness is needed".
Giles has a good point there, it's quite easy for the remake to be better than the original. With Geometry Wars that was a concern as it was an on-the-shelf product, and with Space Giraffe I guess it's a worry because a T2K clone could take punters away from what is - at the moment, perceived by some to be - yet another Tempest.

nyarla wrote:matt: well thats what making games is all about to me (not that ive gotten that far with it myself yet)... i reckon trying to remake a game can give a great impetus/direction to making the actual engine, but after that, why not make something totally your own with it
I agree 101%

matt

Exactly all I say is "is so difficult to have a friendly chat before to do some things ?"

Especially when people are already working on some stuff themselves ?

I mean an cup of tea and bisquits and so on ...

Flabio · Post by **Flabio** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:17 pm 0

gilesgoat wrote:No, it wasn't good as well, I think we state it clear.

Sorry, should've been clearer. I'm not referring to your or Jeff's opinions here, but there are a lot of people on this forum that didn't see why I thought cloning Geo Wars was a bad idea.

matt · Post by **matt** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:18 pm 0

gilesgoat wrote:Exactly all I say is "is so difficult to have a friendly chat before to do some things ?"

I guess it depends what the intentions of the chat and the desired outcome for both parties was.

But as the Typhoon guy says, he arrived at it by accident.

matt

Peet · Post by **Peet** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:26 pm 0

Yak wrote:gnnn. remakes.

Don't want to stir up any unnecessary shit here, but... I thought you'd made some of those too...

andym00 · Post by **andym00** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:30 pm 0

gilesgoat wrote:
The Caffeine Kid wrote:There is a old saying that goes something like "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one" and it's true. Last time I checked arseholes were not illegal.
Depends, in which state are we talking ?

The fact is not illegal does not mean it's accepted

Anyway, I had a check in that forum and what the guy is saying ..

What to say him ? I dunno .. I mean from one side "fair play he did quite
a work to create something", from another side well .. maybe to get in
touch BEFORE to do anything like that would never be a bad idea.

He certainly has skills to do stuff so I am sure he could re-elaborate on
some ideas and create someting original, skills are certainly not missing.

I found a bit "disturbing" some posts in that forum but let's move on
I don't see the case to star a war because of a couple of posts.

I think that the moral of the story is "is never completely safe to retouch
things done by someone else" I mean yes of course you can do it but
feelings and results will always be mixed, some can be good some not
and you can't really blame parts for having them

At least when that someone else is still interested and caring for his/her
stuff, Theurer said long ago and more than once that he wasn't interested
at all in Tempest any more and did not want to have anyting to do with it.

T2K is quite a thing we can say "it's Minter" and everybody knows how
much that thing is loved and unfortunatelly it's even a game that had a
bit of "stories" attached not all of them good.

I think .. that the "bottom line" is "to avoid weird stuff" it's better to take
always "new directions" .. I am sure if one would make a <game> remake
the authors of <game> could have something to say and so on ...

I don't want to say/trash in the bin "all the retro remakes" but .. well ..
I just mean than "when something is still alive a bit of more carefulness is needed".

An email and a bit of chat costs nothing, can help lot.

I think my irony detector has just exploded, injuring the cat in the process..

gilesgoat · Post by **gilesgoat** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:31 pm 0

andym00 wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:
The Caffeine Kid wrote:There is a old saying that goes something like "opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one" and it's true. Last time I checked arseholes were not illegal.
Depends, in which state are we talking ?

The fact is not illegal does not mean it's accepted

Anyway, I had a check in that forum and what the guy is saying ..

What to say him ? I dunno .. I mean from one side "fair play he did quite
a work to create something", from another side well .. maybe to get in
touch BEFORE to do anything like that would never be a bad idea.

He certainly has skills to do stuff so I am sure he could re-elaborate on
some ideas and create someting original, skills are certainly not missing.

I found a bit "disturbing" some posts in that forum but let's move on
I don't see the case to star a war because of a couple of posts.

I think that the moral of the story is "is never completely safe to retouch
things done by someone else" I mean yes of course you can do it but
feelings and results will always be mixed, some can be good some not
and you can't really blame parts for having them

At least when that someone else is still interested and caring for his/her
stuff, Theurer said long ago and more than once that he wasn't interested
at all in Tempest any more and did not want to have anyting to do with it.

T2K is quite a thing we can say "it's Minter" and everybody knows how
much that thing is loved and unfortunatelly it's even a game that had a
bit of "stories" attached not all of them good.

I think .. that the "bottom line" is "to avoid weird stuff" it's better to take
always "new directions" .. I am sure if one would make a <game> remake
the authors of <game> could have something to say and so on ...

I don't want to say/trash in the bin "all the retro remakes" but .. well ..
I just mean than "when something is still alive a bit of more carefulness is needed".

An email and a bit of chat costs nothing, can help lot.
I think my irony detector has just exploded, injuring the cat in the process..

Can you be more clear please ?

There's no irony in that or intended to be.

The Caffeine Kid · Post by **The Caffeine Kid** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:15 pm 0

Kufi just posted this on Retro Remakes:-

Hello everyone,

Again thanks for your support.

For the time i have decided to pull the game and website from the server, but regarding the project itself nothing is decided yet. I just sent of an email to Jeff (something i should have done earlier i suppose) to try and remedy the situation.

I am really embarassed that it has come to this, it was really not my intention to "open a can of worms".