FOOTBALL: Season 2006/07 Discussion Thread

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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KevG
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Post by KevG »

fog wrote: Bad. 100 years of tradition that's respected throughout the footballing world thrown out of the window.
Not sure I understand that fog, mate.

Tradition is sort of intangible anyway. Is it Liverpool's history? And doing things the right way? Some would say that LFC's inability to capitalise commercially on its 'tradition' is the reason it's playing second (5th...) fiddle for years anyway.

This new crowd haven't done anything yet so as a Red I won't be passing judgement yet. The facts are a) we have a huge debt b) we need a new stadium (moot point for some) c) we can't compete at the level that everyone wants to be with the income we generate now.
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Post by PaulEMoz »

Crikey! Coming from behind to beat Reading 3-2 is quite a result given our current plight.

:D
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Post by fog »

PaulEMoz wrote:Crikey! Coming from behind to beat Reading 3-2 is quite a result given our current plight.

:D
With the bonus that we've scored a few goals which was becoming a major problem. People talk about our defense but until tonight only 4 teams had conceded less.
KevG wrote:
fog wrote: Bad. 100 years of tradition that's respected throughout the footballing world thrown out of the window.
Not sure I understand that fog, mate.

Tradition is sort of intangible anyway. Is it Liverpool's history? And doing things the right way? Some would say that LFC's inability to capitalise commercially on its 'tradition' is the reason it's playing second (5th...) fiddle for years anyway.

This new crowd haven't done anything yet so as a Red I won't be passing judgement yet. The facts are a) we have a huge debt b) we need a new stadium (moot point for some) c) we can't compete at the level that everyone wants to be with the income we generate now.
Well I could be wrong of course :) I'm assuming, quite possibly wrongly, that you will now go about things the Chelsea way. Buying players simply so other teams can't, buying up the best young talent instead of having a proper youth policy and having a rich benefactor paying player wages instead of being able to generate the necessary revenue themselves.

I know it's now a business but actions like the above are anti-competitive and, to use a cliche, it's not a level playing field.

Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Aston Villa & West Ham are now being financed to an extent by rich new owners. They can't all be successful so what happens when one of them walks away because sooner or later one of them undoubtedly will.

And one final point about Liverpool not currently being able to compete. I'd argue that's more to do with bad management than it is finances. Your recent managers have always spent plenty of cash just not very wisely. (as a Newcastle fan that sounds depressingly familiar :) )
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Post by Dio »

Was never a penalty on Martins though. That said, Sibierski's goal didn't look offside either so maybe it evened out.

I'm utterly astonished that if we win our remaining game in hand we're just 6 points from 4th place.
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Post by PaulEMoz »

Dio wrote:I'm utterly astonished that if we win our remaining game in hand we're just 6 points from 4th place.
I've been telling people at work this for a few weeks now. They're all doom and gloom, but I've been pointing out that, shite as we are, we've only been six points behind Arsenal. I mean, looking on the negative side, this could be the most wide-open relegation battle in history.
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Post by Dio »

Or the alternative depression: if we had a quality striker we could have been competing with Man U and Chelsea...
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Post by PaulEMoz »

Dio wrote:Or the alternative depression: if we had a quality striker we could have been competing with Man U and Chelsea...
Don't be saying daft stuff like that, man. We'd still have found a way to cock it up! :lol:
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Post by Dio »

Well....

yes.
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Post by Guru-Meditation »

Dio wrote:Or the alternative depression: if we had a quality striker we could have been competing with Man U and Chelsea...
Sorry, we're currently filling the position of "team in the top 4 that doesn't deserve to be there." Come again next season :wink:
passplay> is anyone else sitting with their balls gently nestled in a bowl of red jello?
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Post by randomdudes brother »

From what I've heard (From a quite biased Reading source) it wasn't a pen last night, but the disallowed goal was onside so that evens things up a bit, sounded like quite an even game tbh.
The thing I can't believe is that we (reading) are somehow 6th in the bloody prem :S It's quite nice when you get promoted to the top flight and have a long estblished prem club like newcastle saying it's an achievement to beat you :) I'm still unsure if we'll stay up or not tbh, IMO our problems are going to be mostly near the end of the season if we're lucky, if we have some bad luck and someone like Doyle gets injured we'll be in trouble though with kitson still out for a minimum of 6 weeks after playing 45 min of footy this season :( We need to bring in another striker in jan imo, but we lack cover just about everywhere.
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Post by Geenius »

randomdudes brother wrote:I'm still unsure if we'll stay up or not tbh...
You're shitting us, right? You only need about 10-15 more points from 22 games! Even I'm feeling positive this season, and I'm an Evertonian. Watford and Charlton look pretty shite to be honest, so if either of those get close to Reading I'll be surprised. That only leaves one other club needing fewer points, and Sheffield Utd will be lucky to continue their current run.
Is this going to take long, only my foot's gone to sleep and I'd like to catch it up.

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Post by Dio »

randomdudes brother wrote:From what I've heard (From a quite biased Reading source) it wasn't a pen last night, but the disallowed goal was onside so that evens things up a bit, sounded like quite an even game tbh.
More so than it should have been. We started well, but after scoring eased back a touch as Reading redoubled their efforts and took control. Then you scored and we went into Watership Down mode until half-time. I've no idea what Roeder said but I suspect it consisted of slapping every player hard about the face and saying "YOU are a Premiership footballer." We were a bit nervous, but the penalty settled us again, so there's no doubt that it changed the game a lot. Right now I'll take it, but it's not a good way to win.
I'm still unsure if we'll stay up or not tbh
What Gee said, double. You're 80% of safe already, you could have 40 points by the end of the Christmas games!

That said, this league is wide open for every place except the top two this year.
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Post by KevG »

fog wrote:Buying players simply so other teams can't, buying up the best young talent instead of having a proper youth policy and having a rich benefactor paying player wages instead of being able to generate the necessary revenue themselves.
Yeah I'd fefinitely hate the 'blocking' thing to happen. As I say, little is known about this group in the footballing sense yet. I really woudl hope they wouldn't pull that stunt.

As to the youth policy, that's fairly poor anyway. It seemed to be ignored utterly under Houllier. The younger lads who got a go last year (Raven, Ostemobor et al) are no longer seen. Warnock makes the odd appearance but that's a bout it apart from, Guthrie say, who played the other night.
fog wrote: I know it's now a business but actions like the above are anti-competitive and, to use a cliche, it's not a level playing field.
There's the rub: business; we need Dubai-levels of cash just to catch up with the ManU's and Chelsea's. But, yeah, as I said, I agree with you with regards to the anti-competitive angle.
fog wrote: Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Portsmouth, Aston Villa & West Ham are now being financed to an extent by rich new owners. They can't all be successful so what happens when one of them walks away because sooner or later one of them undoubtedly will.
When one walks then their team will fail, simple as. The game's changing utterly. If it's us who fails, I'll hate it, of course, but they're the stakes.
fog wrote: And one final point about Liverpool not currently being able to compete. I'd argue that's more to do with bad management than it is finances. Your recent managers have always spent plenty of cash just not very wisely. (as a Newcastle fan that sounds depressingly familiar :) )
Houllier's spending was probably the worst in my opinion. I think it would be unfair to lump Benitez in, in that category though. He's suffering from the consequences of the Ged era and has had to rebuild the squad almost from the ground up. Very few of the signings have been his 'first' choice.
We wanted Simao, then Joaquin but ended up with Pennant for example; Agger was 2nd if not third choice behind Alves. Ironically Alves will possibly end up at Chelsea and ironically, Agger has turned out to be one of our best buys this season.

My gripe at our inability to compete is deep-rooted and goes back much further than the late nineties and beyond team amanagers. Prior to that we'd enjoyed unprecedented success but commercially we've been pathetic IMHO. We've taken no advantage of our much-vaunted 'tradition' at all. Cannier commerical brains could have turned Liverpool into a commercial giant, IMO but it simply didn't happen. It's a long standing complaint round here. United are a great example of what could have been done. No tribalism here: I mean it. Everyone could learn a lot of lessons from them; a club who built on their image way before Beckham and co came along.

But anyway. :D I hope it doesn't go the Chelsea way but concede that it might, which I'd hate, as do very many old-skool Chelsea fans. I just wish we'd been a better condition commercially waaaay before the Premiership came into being.
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Post by Dio »

I'm not sure about the commercial part. Before the Premiership (and the Sky money, around about the same time), I don't know if it would have been possible to build a commercial entity the way Kenyon did at Man U.

That needed international exposure that before near-worldwide multi-channel television I doubt would have been possible.

Man U had the 'luck' to be on top at that point, which by a feedback loop made it relatively easy to build up the club, and a substantial percentage of the England team to make it easy for English supporters to pick them as a second team (a tactic that Chelsea have clearly tried to duplicate wherever an English player has been identified as near world-class).
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Post by Guru-Meditation »

Aaah, another goal of the season award that Pompey deserve but will be denied from us unless we finish in the top 3.

(2005 : http://youtube.com/watch?v=efenJgcUKfI compared to http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhCE9dYjU2M , and 2006 http://youtube.com/watch?v=GJ6mXZsgUBI compared to http://youtube.com/watch?v=HFstS8y4GzU ... although to be fair Gerrards goal had execution, timing and was in the cup final, as opposed to Taylor doing it against Sunderland when we were already 3-1 up :) )
passplay> is anyone else sitting with their balls gently nestled in a bowl of red jello?
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