The Dr Who thread

xav · Post by **xav** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:53 am 0

Sir_LANs-a-lot wrote:Perhaps all the Timelords were given one at timelord school - It's a nice, convenient plot device that doesn't seem to have existed prior to this season.

Fixed that for you.

I can kind of handle every Timelord having one - though it seems a bit handy that they can turn into "humans" when most of them don't have any human DNA at all, and the Doctor being half human seems to be a matter of much debate/confusion. I can even handle the chameleony thing meaning that all of them look like pocket watches - though that seems a little stretched as well - unless the Gallifreyan Institute of Horology had some input into the design. But would they really all look like identical pocket watches, right down to the elaborate engravings?

IronGiant · Post by **IronGiant** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:58 am 0

xav wrote: I can kind of handle every Timelord having one - though it seems a bit handy that they can turn into "humans" when most of them don't have any human DNA at all, and the Doctor being half human seems to be a matter of much debate/confusion. I can even handle the chameleony thing meaning that all of them look like pocket watches - though that seems a little stretched as well - unless the Gallifreyan Institute of Horology had some input into the design. But would they really all look like identical pocket watches, right down to the elaborate engravings?

It doesn't quite gel with me either - seems to me that RTD liked the idea of the watch from Cornell's excellent Human Nature so much that he simply flexed his producers muscles and nicked it. Bugger the plot inconsistencies, this is the 'great' RTD, he can do anything!

Markyp · Post by **Markyp** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:24 am 0

So then.. does the watch allow you to turn into any alien species at all or just a human? If just a human why did time-lords choose humans out of all the species out there.
If a timelord can turn into any species with his real self in a watch, how out of place would a pocket watch look on a zygon for instance?....

I know, our main protagonists are humans and it's only a plot device!

IronGiant · Post by **IronGiant** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:56 am 0

Curious isn't it? When the watch was used in Human Nature/Family of blood it wasn't questioned and over-analysed, it just fit very nicely into the story - but now RTD has re-used it it's being questioned. Is this because RTD has nicked the idea, or just a symptom of his sloppy writing?

Discuss.

Ollie · Post by **Ollie** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:35 pm 0

HGFB wrote:
SimonB wrote:Was there not a line about returning to the basic form over and over again after various mutations?
Yes. I'm often surprised at how people don't seem to be able to listen to the words during an episode. There were a few people on the OG forums who mentioned the lack of evolution despite the Doctor's clear explanation for it.

Yes, I did hear that line. What rubbish. I mean, 100 trillion years. It's not even slightly realistic, is it?

Not central to the plot, though, so it didn't continue to bother me throughout the episode.

IronGiant wrote:Last 10 minutes = 4/5 (deduct one point for Simms' way over the top Tennant impersonation; should have kept Jacobi as the Master, he was far better)

Come to think of it that bothered me as well. I didn't blame Simm for it, though; just put it down to RTD not being able to differentiate his characters properly (I mean, there is a certain similarity in the way they all talk...), and thinking it cleverer to draw parallels than differences even at the expense of decent characterisation. Now that he's done his clever little "ooh, look, it's just like when the Doctor regenerated" wink, hopefully it won't continue in that vein.

But we're nit-picking now... it was still a bloody good episode. IMO There's been a definite and significant improvement, taking the series as a whole, over the previous two years. The worst we've had this year was the Dalek story and that was miles better than last year's dud, Fear Her. And since Human Nature the quality has been consistently high. We haven't had such a good run of top episodes in the previous two series. Plus the series as a whole seems to hang together a lot better than the previous two years.

IronGiant · Post by **IronGiant** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:49 pm 0

Ollie wrote:Plus the series as a whole seems to hang together a lot better than the previous two years.

Agreed. Series three has been more consistent in churning out good episodes with some duffers thrown into the mix for good measure. For me though it's been in blocks - I enjoyed the first three episodes of the series, then it went downhill for four episodes, picked up again for another three and with Utopia (barring the last 10 minutes) it's gone downhill again.

At least I've enjoyed over half of them (so far) so that's not a bad return.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:59 pm 0

Btw am I right in thinking that when Simm went to speak to the Doctor and got his intonation and pitch all screwed to start with, the voices we heard were actually... well... any Who fan can probably guess... those from the past? Clever bit of trickery there if that's the case

Alarm · Post by **Alarm** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:35 pm 0

Mayhem wrote:Btw am I right in thinking that when Simm went to speak to the Doctor and got his intonation and pitch all screwed to start with, the voices we heard were actually... well... any Who fan can probably guess... those from the past? Clever bit of trickery there if that's the case

I can't remember that, but I do recall hearing previous incarnations of the Master talking from inside the watch shortly before Professor Yana opened it.

Alarm · Post by **Alarm** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:44 pm 0

IronGiant wrote: It doesn't quite gel with me either - seems to me that RTD liked the idea of the watch from Cornell's excellent Human Nature so much that he simply flexed his producers muscles and nicked it. Bugger the plot inconsistencies, this is the 'great' RTD, he can do anything!

I think that when creating the synopsis for this series, RTD wanted to bring the Master back and had to tie it in with the 'last of the Time Lords' idea. He remembered the Human Nature novel and decided to add that to this series, so he could use the Chameleon Arch to bring the Master back. Simple.

IronGiant · Post by **IronGiant** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:49 pm 0

It still doesn't gel with me why the Master would also have an identical watch to the Docs. Okay, I know, it's a plot device but something about it bugs me.

I guess when I don't like an episode I tend to nit-pick just a tad.

Stevo · Post by **Stevo** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:52 pm 0

get over it.........it is a tv show not rocket science

Bog · Post by **Bog** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:54 pm 0

Ponderings on the ep, with spoilers wrote:See, I've been trying not to over-analyse it. It's fairly apparent from Doctor Who all along that humans are in some way quite important to the Universe, rather than just being Bit Part Species Number 43. The watch turning a Gallifreyan into specifically a human might make some kidna sense given how the Virus with Shoes (cheers, Mr. Hicks) tends to be all over the bloody galaxy. No point in camouflaging yourself as someone who's going to stand out, is there? Presumably there are other objects which would let a Time Lord hide as something else - book of parking tickets for a Jadoon, or something.

Yeah, there were some things that niggled, but when the story actually started 35-odd minutes in, it was pretty powerful. Whilst the watch arguably makes borderline sense, it was a powerful thing to see it, and the penny might have dropped as subtly as a ten-foot girder but that didn't lessen the impact.

I wonder what The Master meant, when he ejected the ship's course recording (which is what I *assume* he ejected from the computer to take with him) and said "Utopia!" in a sarcastic tone....?

Presumably, Mr. Simm's over-acting is just the hyper-cocaine type effect of regeneration. Hope so, anyway...

With regards to "how do we get out of this one", there are - as previously noted - at least two obvious ways (TARDIS recall, Jack's watch). The Master's TARDIS wouldn't have much business being in the silo - he was found naked with nothing but a watch, and lived a long life. Do TARDISes follow their owners like puppies? Doesn't look like it, given the number of times the Doctor's had his locked away someplace.

I think Torchwood put me off Jack a bit, though - or maybe I just find it a bit dull when RTD keeps talking about sex, all the damned time. There are more important things in life.

IronGiant · Post by **IronGiant** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:56 pm 0

Stevo wrote:get over it.........it is a tv show not rocket science

I know, I know ........ I just can't help it.

PVB · Post by **PVB** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:12 pm 0

Bog wrote:
Ponderings on the ep, with spoilers wrote:
I wonder what The Master meant, when he ejected the ship's course recording (which is what I *assume* he ejected from the computer to take with him) and said "Utopia!" in a sarcastic tone....?

My ponderings on the ep, with spoilers wrote:
I wondered if that 'Utopia' was something The Master put in Yana's sub-conscious, with a possibility that they're heading into danger, rather than safety?

Istar · Post by **Istar** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:15 pm 0

xav wrote:I can kind of handle every Timelord having one - though it seems a bit handy that they can turn into "humans" when most of them don't have any human DNA at all

We've only seen it doing Human DNA encoding. I'd bet it can retroform any sort of DNA.

, and the Doctor being half human seems to be a matter of much debate/confusion.

No it isn't. He isn't. 100% TimeLord, always has been, always will be. I refer you to my previous post in which I clarified the rules about talking about McCann (who, for the record, I thought played quite a good Doctor, but the storyline is on the Forbidden list, m'kay?

)