Harlequin wrote:I do not think that I have noticed a single deus ex machina in any of the season finales. All of the factors involved seem to have been introduced long before they were used. Are people using some odd definition of the term that I am not familiar with?
Deus ex machina describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot
Well, the first series "Bad Wolf" ending definitely was a deus ex as although the words were dropped all over the series there was no indication as to what it actually meant and no way to deduce what would happen.
The second series is arguable. Whilst the ending wasn't hinted at or suggested before hand, it wasn't in any way inconsistent with the plot or abilities of the characters.
The third series definitely wasn't though. The denouement was hinted at when we saw the paradox machine and all but confirmed when we found out who the Toclafane (sp) were. If you thought it was a deus ex machina it just means you weren't paying attention.
I agree with you totally on 1, totally on 2 - didn't see that as deus ex machina at all. But I'm not with you on 3 at all.
Time is what the whole series is about I agree, but to use it as an excuse to just rewind things instead of resolving the dramatic problems created? It was the worst kind of lazy reset to resolve a bit of a mess without bothering. By the definition of deus ex you offer, this classes as an improbable event I think, although I accept you could argue that sci fi is hard to create an improbable event seeing as it is all improbable by its very nature.
I think you are off the mark suggesting that people weren't paying attention though. You may not agree it was a deus ex, but it was lazy writing from my point of view, and from a lot of others who all were paying quite enough attention.
Harlequin wrote:Those stories were merely rumours. It does seem fairly certain, however, that RTD and some others will be leaving before the fifth season.
Aren't those stories, for the moment, merely more rumours?
Gorecki wrote:The third series definitely wasn't though. The denouement was hinted at when we saw the paradox machine and all but confirmed when we found out who the Toclafane (sp) were. If you thought it was a deus ex machina it just means you weren't paying attention.
The deus ex machina wasn't the Toclafane. The deus ex machina was a bunch of people saying "Doctor" at the same time and turning him into fucking Jesus.
offyoutoddle wrote:You may not agree it was a deus ex, but it was lazy writing from my point of view, and from a lot of others who all were paying quite enough attention.
Whether or not it was lazy writing was not my point. My point was that the ending could be predicted by logical deduction and could therefore not be considered a deus ex. If you didn't work out the ending before it happened or, at the very least, piece together the clues after the event then you clearly weren't paying attention.
3 is a clear Deus Ex. In fact, there were two, with the Doctor's sudden transformation and the Paradox Machine. Sure, both were presaged and envisaged within the episode, but that doesn't disqualify them.
My criteria that defines them both as Deus Ex is that in both cases you are effectively sat there thinking, "Well, how the fuck can they possibly get out of this without a total change of the basic premise?" The answer, in both cases, is a Magic Reset Switch of Applied Phlebotinum. Boom; everything's back the way it was last week. Move along. Nothing to see here.
It doesn't matter that the potential Deus Ex was bleedin' obvious, as it was in the case of the Paradox Machine.
The Doctor's one could have been fixed simply and completely within backstory, by a couple of minor changes. He could break the Master's hold over him, defeat the master psychically, and regenerate. But that would be David Tennant's Doctor Who career fucked, wouldn't it? So instead his 'in-tuned psychic powers' also let him completely undo all physical damage to himself. Mmmm. That's a clear Deus Ex to me.
Right, but the point is, Time Lords are psychic and the Master was already being affected a bit by his own satellites. That was all nicely set up for a nice bit of mind to mind combat at the end.
But instead the Time Lords' psychic powers suddenly add telekinesis and ooh-I-feel-better-thanks as well, which is a total and utter Ass Pull. And check that definition out. It could have been written for this Who episode .
Ollie wrote:
The deus ex machina wasn't the Toclafane. The deus ex machina was a bunch of people saying "Doctor" at the same time and turning him into fucking Jesus.
Exactly. The Doctor hasn't really been big on the glowy floaty thing, so quite where it came from this time I am really not sure.
Yeah, be careful with it. I lost nearly a whole day the first time and if I'm ever bored I can still read it for hours. And there's no substitute for being able to shout "Did anybody order A LARGE HAM!" at the TV.
Throws stuff like this into a nice harsh contrast.
It's probably worth avoiding if you don't already look at TV and films from a structural point of view though, I can see it spoiling the fun a bit. Like, for example, feeling the need to shout "Did anybody order A LARGE HAM!" at the TV.
Last edited by Dio on Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:38 pm 0, edited 1 time in total.
Ollie wrote:The deus ex machina wasn't the Toclafane. The deus ex machina was a bunch of people saying "Doctor" at the same time and turning him into fucking Jesus.
That's a fair point. There was a precedent about the power of words set earlier in the series but it's still something of a massive leap to get to the Doctor un-aging himself and floating.
Dio wrote:My criteria that defines them both as Deus Ex...
Oh come on! If you're just going to start creating your own definitions for words then I may as well just argue with Darkflame.
The paradox machine allows something to happen that can't possibly happen. It's a fairly logical premise that if the paradox machine is destroyed then what has happened then can't have happened and is therefore, um, un-happened. Honestly, it is.
Dio wrote:Right, but the point is, Time Lords are psychic and the Master was already being affected a bit by his own satellites. That was all nicely set up for a nice bit of mind to mind combat at the end.
Or the combined power of all the humans feeding a psychic signal back into the Archangel network could have simply frazzled The Master's brain, given that he was already tuned in. The Doctor would have been restored with a twiddle of the laser screwdriver, and the story would have ended up as a nice tale of how, when we all pull together, we can overcome anything.
Instead it was a lesson on the power of prayer - when we all pull together we can overcome anything, so long as there's a powerful glowy floaty person around to do the hard work.
As for the paradox machine - it just turned out to be a sci-fi wrapped method of turning the whole story into "and then they woke up and it had all been a bad dream".
Co-creator of The Greys, Monsters, Inked & Elvie webcomics
• Web Site • Twitter • Patreon •
xav wrote:As for the paradox machine - it just turned out to be a sci-fi wrapped method of turning the whole story into "and then they woke up and it had all been a bad dream".
It's both better and worse than that because of the throwaway "eye of the storm" line that means that everything's magically undone but all our characters still have full memory of it. Which of course is a second and probably even third order paradox...
This has been done frequently in episodic TV and usually results in lots of conversations with traumatised characters sat on park benches gazing at other people feeding the ducks saying "Look at them. They don't know." "Well, they don't, it never happened." etc.
At least we only hit about 4/10 on the Gorgonzola scale for that kind of naffness though.
Gorecki wrote:People who can't differentiate between an actor and the character they play hated the christmas special. Everyone else loved it. She's a good actress.
Perhaps she IS a good actress, but she's playing that fucking irritating moronic bint. I ain't going to watch it thinking "wow, she's portraying that brainless cow exceptionally well". Her character is gonna get on MAH TITZZZZ.
Dio wrote:Don't need to watch a Tom Cruise movie to know it's gonna be shite doya?
Indeed. You've never seen the shite that's "The Last Samurai", have you?
[CLOSE SARCASM TAG HERE, btw...]
.
