Official Nintendo Fanboy Smugness & Gloating Thread

[IronGiant]

Likewise I suspect I'm not going to like all this running round planets, defying gravity coupled with lots of fancy twitching the wiimote around.

It's all the above that really appeals to me.

[Bubba]

New TVs can do upscaling as well as upscaling DVD players that the videophiles raved about, SD DVDs can look stunning via this method so why shouldnt SD consoles?
The Wii gets a boost from not having scanlines for starters, then the extra colour vibrancy from an LCD.
So what you're saying is that upscaling DVD players, standlone upscalers, and the circuits inside the TVs are a waste of time.
I'll say it again, Mario Galaxy looks lush on an HDTV, graphical power doesnt affect the picture quality.
Also note the tendancy for HD Xbox 360 games to have gamma problems many being very brown (RR6 Gears of War) or set at dusk to help with frame rates.
Plant Earth in SD blows away anything Ive seen from these amazing HD consoles.

HGFB's said pretty much all I could say regarding this, and I agree with him in pretty much every respect (including how ugly RE4 looks on a modern set - I was pretty shocked given how pretty it looked on the cubie at the time ). If the Wii could produce graphics like Planet earth then it wouldn't be an issue. But it can't. None of the consoles can, but the PS3 and 360 are certainly a damn site closer than the Wii is ever going to be. When compared to the others it is criminally underpowered in the graphics arena. A built in scaling GPU / something to do AA would have made a tremendous difference, and turned something like RE4 into a decent looking game rather than the shimmery mess it is now (even comparing it to other Wii games it looks like a shoddy GC port from the technical point of view).

In short, comparing SD DVDs upscaled and displayed on a TV to that of a video games console is rather silly. Little things like Upscaling Lag really come into play when talking about video gaming - and are particularly problematic on cheap LCD TVs. Ours has made original guitar hero / frequency / amplitude damn near unplayable on the PS2, I don't know what kind of lag the TV will have dealing with the Wii but I suspect it'll be similar to that experienced with the PS2.

Still, SMG looks like it should be whole barrels of fun - certainly more so than the rather disappointing Sunshine on the GC!

Cheers

Bubba

[fog]

I hated SMS too - but they are saying that Galaxy is the true successor to SM64 - wait and see I guess.

It's the true successor to SM64 because of the mixed reception SMS got

[disciple]

New TVs can do upscaling as well as upscaling DVD players that the videophiles raved about, SD DVDs can look stunning via this method so why shouldnt SD consoles?
The Wii gets a boost from not having scanlines for starters, then the extra colour vibrancy from an LCD.
So what you're saying is that upscaling DVD players, standlone upscalers, and the circuits inside the TVs are a waste of time.
I'll say it again, Mario Galaxy looks lush on an HDTV, graphical power doesnt affect the picture quality.
Also note the tendancy for HD Xbox 360 games to have gamma problems many being very brown (RR6 Gears of War) or set at dusk to help with frame rates.
Plant Earth in SD blows away anything Ive seen from these amazing HD consoles.

HGFB's said pretty much all I could say regarding this, and I agree with him in pretty much every respect (including how ugly RE4 looks on a modern set - I was pretty shocked given how pretty it looked on the cubie at the time ).

...

A built in scaling GPU / something to do AA would have made a tremendous difference, and turned something like RE4 into a decent looking game rather than the shimmery mess it is now (even comparing it to other Wii games it looks like a shoddy GC port from the technical point of view).

I've played RE4 through on the Wii, and Assignment Ada, and Seperate Ways and unlocked all the Mercenaries characters and I haven't noticed anything particularly poor about it. Obviously it *is* just a direct port of the GC version but we've always known that.

I'll admit I'm not the most descerning when it comes to fancy graphics but what do you mean it looks ugly on a modern set? What is the problem with it that had you so shocked?

[IronGiant]

I hated SMS too - but they are saying that Galaxy is the true successor to SM64 - wait and see I guess.

It's the true successor to SM64 because of the mixed reception SMS got

Just out of interest, how much input did Miyamoto have into SMS (presumably not enough)?

[Nintendodragon]

I quite likes SMS, I played it all the way through and got my £'s worth, but i didnt really like the setting that much and the reliance on the back pack.. the best bits were the hardcore bits whee you didnt have the back pack and hed to get all the red coins! they were rock hard! and relied on your jumping skills..

I'm really looking forward to SMG. the gavity concept is amazing! I'vve been watching some of the videos and the way you can jump off a planet and then be pulled in by anothers gravity is genius!

[IronGiant]

Mario Galaxy, new area walk through:

http://download.gametrailers.com/gt_vau ... vwt_gt.wmv

I said WOW!

That looks stonkingly awesome.

Just watching it is great fun, SMG could well become a good spectator sport.

[Alarm]

Wow. SMG looks even better with each video I watch. How Shigsy can top this, I don't know.

[Alarm]

Just watching it is great fun, SMG could well become a good spectator sport.

Player two can control a cursor and help player one.

[Bubba]

I'll admit I'm not the most descerning when it comes to fancy graphics but what do you mean it looks ugly on a modern set? What is the problem with it that had you so shocked?

Basically when I originally played it through it was amongst the better looking games and now it looks pretty poor. So much shimmer (unless I'm very much mistaken there's very little filtering of any sorts applied) and muddy looking textures. And not just in comparison with 360 / PS3 games, but in comparison with other Wii games.

Some filtering is sorely needed though. Not sure if the Wii can do AA (I suspect it can, and it's hardly like RE4 is pushing it graphically!) but the game just looks so very shimmery - I remember being really impressed by the initial pull through the Canyon when playing the GC version, but now it just looks old and tired. I suppose if you've never played through RE4 before, and can stand the waggly motion control (shake the 'mote to avoid rolling boulders rather than bashing a button) then the Wii version is probably worth getting - for the native widescreen over the GC version. But otherwise it strikes me as a shoddy port.

But then again I suppose I'm not entirely objective when it comes to RE4 - I felt it was massively overrated! I was planning on playing it through and giving it a second chance, but in the relatively short time I played it (got to the canyon, ran out of ammo and proceeded to get pitchforked to death after spending all of my money on herbs / ammo) my feelings towards it have only been compounded. Now with unlimited / more generous ammo, better camera angle and the ability to sidestep / knife while moving and I'd be sold. But when you compare the character movement in Gears (about the only other 3rd person game I could think of, but I'm sure the comparison holds with others) it just blows Leon's clunky movements out of the water.

Cheers

Bubba

[Jamesac]

I got to play SMG at last year's E3 and what was there was a total blast. The gravity thing didn't feel like a gimmick so much as a new play mechanic, and it was always obvious how it was going to work when you got to a new area. Assuming they haven't totally changed things in the last year (and I'm not watching any videos to keep the game fresh when it hits) then this is going to be the best 3D Mario.

James

[Darkflame]

I hated SMS too - but they are saying that Galaxy is the true successor to SM64 - wait and see I guess.

It's the true successor to SM64 because of the mixed reception SMS got

Indeed.
SMS felt like rushed development all over
(ditto for TWW)

Galaxy hopefully has been given the time it needs due to the Wii's success.

(including how ugly RE4 looks on a modern set - I was pretty shocked given how pretty it looked on the cubie at the time Sad)

That nicely sums up why I dont want a "modern set".
If a lower res is more blured, but better looking overall, I'm sticking with it.
I love Re4.
Real life is closer to a blur then pixaly, to my eyes.

I'll get a "modern set" next gen, when we have 60fps and AA on both the hardware and software [/optimistic]

I'm curious about the shimering you complain about, however. That would annoy me....but I dont remember it on the GC :-/

But when you compare the character movement in Gears (about the only other 3rd person game I could think of, but I'm sure the comparison holds with others) it just blows Leon's clunky movements out of the water

You could also argue that Halo is better then Alone in the Dark because of the same reason.
Survival Horror has always had less responsive controls for the sake of realism/intensity.

If you could shot stuff as easily as other games, it frankly, wouldnt be scary at all.
You should feel "oh FUCK FUCK FUCK" when a few are comeing at you.
Not calmly headshot them as if they are generic enemys in a FPS.

Different genras.
Different rules.

[disciple]

What's "shimmering" I can't honestly say I've noticed anything that could be described as such.

Regarding the muddy textures, well it's a direct port of the GC version textures and all, that's always been made clear. It's even been made a budget release for that very reason, it's not something to be suprised about.

As for the graphics, well I suppose it is 640x480 blown up to 42 inches but that's the Wii for ya, I think you just have to accept it's never going to be up to the standard of your 360 and let it be. Personally though I can't say it's detracted or even that I've noticed it while playing, I've been too busy quick-shot knee-capping groups of zombies while I accurately headshot their mates one after the other. There's no way I could do that on a cubey pad.

Horses for courses innit, remind me to pop in the 360 thread one day and talk about how archaic its sub-par user interface is!

[Bubba]

Horses for courses innit, remind me to pop in the 360 thread one day and talk about how archaic its sub-par user interface is!

By user interface I suppose you mean the dashboard. I honestly can't believe anyone would prefer the Wii's "channel" interface to the 360s blade structure. Especially when you've got lots of downloaded titles. Not to mention the whole consistent / persistent online aspect. But as you say, horses for courses.

The shimmering is from a lack of ansio filtering which most Japanese games seem to use - Dio has made very thoughtful posts on this in the past. It just particularly sticks out on Resi4 for some reason.

Cheers

Bubba

[Dio]

The shimmering is from a lack of ansio filtering which most Japanese games seem to use - Dio has made very thoughtful posts on this in the past. It just particularly sticks out on Resi4 for some reason.

Yeah. It's an undersampling issue, an aliasing artifact caused by not sampling the texture frequently enough; using LOD bias or not mipmapping gives games that sparkly, shimmery look as it picks undersampled pixels out of a texture map.

It looks great on screenshots, particularly for vegetation, but moving - well to my eyes (and those of most of the graphics professionals I work with) it's a criminal offence (particularly if you've got fast anisotropic filtering at your disposal; if you haven't, then sure, you do have a choice between blur or undersample, but if you have got aniso at your disposal, you should get the best of both worlds unless you're using a shader algorithm that doesn't filter viably).

Almost all the games I've seen the 'problem' on are Japanese - even the 360 and PS3 suffer badly from it on Ridge Racer, for example - so I do wonder if there may be some cultural phenomena that I'm completely missing that chooses undersampling over blur and maybe even over aniso. I'd really like to hear from anyone that knows more about this.