Plenty of finns here - tax?

[toxibunny]

um, as (and before I was) a recent immigrant, reports about finland seemed to be aligned to my political beliefs - I'm some type of liberal socialist, I think. government should protect/heal the weak and kindof equalise things up fiscally while not interfering with things like drugs, sexual life, religious orientation etc...

I've got plans to open a fish'n'chip shop in lahti.... I've heard the 'bawww - no-one can be rich in finland' arguments, and I'm not bothered - as long as I'm contributing to a society that I'm OK with, you know?

so- finns, clever finns, someone who knows...

where do all those taxes go to? it's just about exactly the same here as in england - the only thing I notice here which is better is that

a) the librarys are better,

and

um? that's about it.



are all those finnish taxes going towards paying for the army or something? is it the fact that everything's so far apart meaning roads cost a shitton more? I dunno.

post loppu.

[kalmar]

I always found Finns to be fairly instinctively conservative people. Maybe in the big cities it's different, dunno..

The taxes are pretty high (I still owe some!) but not more so than the UK.

Norway, maybe Denmark are potentially more like what you're talking about I think.

No niin

[adam]

i imagine it's basically going on benefits, if finland's anything like denmark.

also, if the cost of everything is higher than england, then the machinery of government will cost more to run.

not that i've ever been to finland

i hear the finns like potatoes though...

[zip accident]

In Britain, at the time of Thatcher at least, the cost of benefits, and the revenue from North Sea Oil more or less cancelled out. I imagine something of the sort is ongoing (unemployment is down, but so is oil production I think, not sure what the match is like now). Norway has oil, but I don't think Finland does, not that I know much about Finland, so that might explain the similar tax rates with lower unemployment.

[Peet]

A shitload of needless bureaucracy eats up most of it, really.

[limb_clock]

ok, the taxes go to maintaining the police, the schools, the hospitals and all kinds of public services. Also, the taxes go to (especially TV license taxes) YLE, so that they can keep on making programs.

that's as far as i know.

[Peet]

Thread over.

[toxibunny]

lol, thanks Limb_Clock and Peet.

[Orava]

Finland has pretty equal pay and progressive taxing, so the road sweeper is not left with that much less money after taxes than, say, a doctor.

This also means that teachers, civil servants, road sweepers etc are not paid the minimum wage - public sector pay is quite good, so a lot of tax money disappears down that way.

Also, health care has a lot less restrictions on how much money they can spend on the latest therapies and drugs - hence e.g. the cancer survival rates are much better than in the UK - but it all costs a lot of money.

In education the class sizes are fairly small and the facilities are pretty good. All my Finnish relatives and friends have been quite shocked that out oldest child started in a class of 30+ people in a school where the roof leaks and which looks decidedly manky in places. Again this eats money...

Where some money is saved, I think, is the conscription-based army. This is much cheaper to run than the professional UK one. Also, Finland is no involved in expensive, futile conflicts. Well, except for the reconstruction troops sent to Afghanistan who somehow ended up fighting the Taliban...

Roads and railroads are also significantly more expensive to build because of the climate and the huge distances and sparse population. So are buildings - quadruple glazing, anyone?

A lot of tax money used to go to farmers - the social democrats even campaigned against the (rural) Centre Party with a TV advert where the caption was something like 'Who is the stranger eating at your table?' below a picture of a family eating their evening meal with an obvious farmer-bloke sitting at their table. I think the EU has changed this quite a lot and the farmers now get less subsidies - although Finland is a net contributor to the EU.

So the income tax is quite high and the percentage gets higher the more you earn. However, businesses are taxed relatively lightly, so maybe running a chip shop is not that bad? There is probably a bit more red tape than in the UK but in all the Finnish job market is a lot more flexible than in, say, Norway, Sweden or Germany - so it is relatively easy to hire and fire people.

So, erm, that is where your money goes.

[isomies]

I'd be careful.

I think there might be a reason why there aren't any fish and chip shops in this neck of the woods. (I live in Sweden and did think about the classic English chippie as one business option when I came here from Britain) People here don't eat deep fried fish and I think they might struggle with the notion. The McDonalds here don't do filets of fish, for instance. Going a bit further, there's no KFC in Sweden (or any equivalent) and I think the same is true in Finland. There's plenty of kebab shops and pizzerias, as well as places serving sausages/meat balls/burgers and in Finland, lihapiirakka(a type of Finnish meat pie) but after that there isn't a lot of variety.

In Sweden the problem with taxation and a very good level of benefits for workers is that it is a really difficult to actually employ people if you want to run a business that will break even, let alone turn a profit.

[toxibunny]

yeah, but the people I've actually fried up a batch for have enjoyed it, and in a specific 'do you reckon it would be a good idea for me to sell this stuff?' way.

I reckon a place Lahti's size could support it, quaint english style fish'n'chip shop. with additions to the menu due to finland etc (lihapiirakka, finnish sausage) - hey, if all else fails, I can just put half a boiled egg on top!

and fillet-o-fish is true foulness. it's encouraging that people here don't eat that 'hull-scraping with a crispy orange coating'

yeh.

[limb_clock]

ALSO, toxi

with all the health, and green thinkin on the rage, you'd also be sure to make stuff that prevents global warming, as well as some salads and stuff

[adam]

yeah localising the menu seems a good idea, don't know if there is anything finnish that lends itself to being served in a chippy, or that could be adapted in a novel way

[DaiStation]

Deep fried reindeer.

[adam]

in vodka batter?