Being killed by bullets not yet at the rim?

matt · Post by **matt** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:19 pm 0

disciple wrote:
matt wrote:I am using MPEGStreamclip to step through the video frame by frame using the cursor keys, as I find it easier to do so than in Quicktime.
Quicktime allows you to step by step with the cursor keys.

Oh, so it does! Thanks. it's been a while.

gilesgoat · Post by **gilesgoat** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:23 pm 0

Let's put it THIS WAY :

- the game is FULLY PLAYABLE and perfectly finisheable
- the game can be TOTALLY FUN
- whatever you find out IT CAN'T BE CHANGED ANYMORE
- we can't work and/or allocate more resources on SG any more, we need
to work on other things

Now you can maybe find "the impossible" and even start a set of
"conspiracy theories" on it, but whatever you find there it is and ther it stays.

We played this game over and over and over and over with lot and lot
and lot of fun.

You can maybe find some things that "look like" or "could be" or "maybe if" ..

But they are not going to change now, take it or leave it.

We do believe the game is perfectly fair and works perfectly well for what
it is intended to be.

When I'll see your game finished I'll do my best to find all the defects I
can find about it and complain loud about them

bcass · Post by **bcass** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:26 pm 0

It's unfortunate, but matt, it honestly isn't a game breaker. You just need to adapt your play a little to compensate for it. And the more you use the hoof shots, the less of an issue it becomes anyway.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:28 pm 0

Skipping through the video frame by frame it looks like the first explosion Matt was refering to is the bullet's natural pulse. The head must extend slightly over the rim for the giraffe to have begun exploding in the next frame. I'm guessing Matt's camera is 30fps so only 1 game frame is missing between before and after impact. When played at full speed it does, to me anyway, look like the giraffe is killed by a bullet not on the rim.

Golden rule is don't risk it when they're that close.

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:34 pm 0

gilesgoat wrote:Let's put it THIS WAY :

- the game is FULLY PLAYABLE and perfectly finisheable
- the game can be TOTALLY FUN

That's true, I don't think anyone's doubting that or purposely trying to find fault with it, its just something we've noticed thats all.

For the record I still thing SG is the best game Llamasoft has ever released but like everything in life, its not perfect

Shakey · Post by **Shakey** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:34 pm 0

gilesgoat wrote:When I'll see your game finished I'll do my best to find all the defects I can find about it and complain loud about them

People have paid money to play your game, don't take that shitty attitude because matt's found what looks to be a bug, especially when other people agree with him.

"How can you possibly criticise the new Crowded House record? You've never even learnt to play a musical instrument!"

matt · Post by **matt** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:38 pm 0

everybody: let's keep things calm and reasonable.

bcass:
I'll try to adapt my gameplay, but I have previous little gameplay time these days so other stuff is likely to win. My problem, I know.

I'm the sort of person that once I see something I keep on noticing it to the detriment of everything else it just eats away at me. I'm a perfectionist. My problem, I know.

I'm exactly the same with the ad break on Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares where the writing wobbles the opposite way to the knife. Or when I walk past the waffle shop where they claim to sell Belgium Waffles. I get annoyed by little things and in the end have to look away.

giles:
I don't know what I expect the outcome of this analysis to be. I certainly can't handle the truth!

Please bear in mind that my first post about SG after buying a 360 and the game was one of congratulations and praise for a job well done. I maintain that.

I've not yet noticed any of the bugs or problems that have already been reported and fixed so I guess we all pick up on different things? I don't expect the bullet issue I am talking about to be patched or anything like that, but it would be nice if that - upon checking the code - there is a problem you were to say "you're right - sorry - learn to live with it"

I know game testing is difficult, and with a small outfit and limited testers things slip through. I have read those threads and my heart bleeds for You and Jeff after putting in so much hard work.

As a customer I am apparently always right, though in this case I understand I may not be

Finally, you're quite welcome to take a look at the last game I made (see my sig) and let me know your thoughts. No ifs and buts.

Cheers,
matt

rockwaldo · Post by **rockwaldo** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 pm 0

Giles, Jeff - you really must get a "middle man" to deal with this sort of query.

As understandable as being emotionally defensive of your games is - you really can't speak to your customers like this. You simply can't say "tough shit pal, thats how it was made get over it" even if that's what you really think. Ok, for people within yakyak that are closer to the feel of the place it may not be an issue, but for new users coming on the back of this game it's simply not cricket.

I'm no expert on company PR, but as soon as you release something outside of the indie scene (as SG certainly is) the way you approach your customers does have to change somewhat.

I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, just that maybe biting your tongue now and then would be prudent?

gravy · Post by **gravy** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:49 pm 0

matt wrote:For me, much as you may not want to hear it, this one mechanic is a bit of a game breaker. Not sure I'll find time to play it to improve knowing that I've got to reprogram my fundamental expectations of where exactly my player is. The head being down the lane makes me have to asses the player in 2D rather than on a simpler 1D plane.

I'm with you that the collision box for the giraffe has seemed to extend out into the web a little from time to time but I'm not with you that it's a deal breaker, or even a big deal. It's just something else to learn.

It's not unusual either -lots- of games have a disparity between you the visual representation of your character and it's collision characteristics. Admittedly it's in the player's favour but Ikaruga has a single pixel ship collision box but that doesn't seem to be a problem for most people.

Entitled to your opinion obviously

Kamineko · Post by **Kamineko** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:52 pm 0

In the short time I've played SG, I've found it to be pretty distracting when what you instinctively 'know you've seen' (something I readily admit I'm no good at) based on what you're actually shown doesn't totally match the numbers and rules.

aureole · Post by **aureole** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:07 pm 0

gravy wrote: I'm with you that the collision box for the giraffe has seemed to extend out into the web a little from time to time but I'm not with you that it's a deal breaker, or even a big deal. It's just something else to learn.

Yeah, I found in my first few games not to chance it with bullets. It's quite similar to Ikuraga in the risk/reward stakes - in Ikuraga I know my ship is 1pixel wide, but I'm never 100% certain which, so I don't chance it.

matt · Post by **matt** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:20 pm 0

Also, I can understand how hard it must be to take bug reports when you've had a bunch of people telling you it's all good.

Finally, you might want to change the name of the thread calling for bug reports. I'd have not started this thread had I have not seen that message still up there asking for calls to test.

matt

gravy · Post by **gravy** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:16 pm 0

aureole wrote:
gravy wrote: I'm with you that the collision box for the giraffe has seemed to extend out into the web a little from time to time but I'm not with you that it's a deal breaker, or even a big deal. It's just something else to learn.
Yeah, I found in my first few games not to chance it with bullets. It's quite similar to Ikuraga in the risk/reward stakes - in Ikuraga I know my ship is 1pixel wide, but I'm never 100% certain which, so I don't chance it.

It's not a bad strategy, they're pretty deadly also because your giraffe autofires. Jump in front of a bullet hoping to deflect it with your own shots but do it just after your giraffe has fired and you're more likely to end up toast.

U-B · Post by **U-B** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:10 pm 0

It appears in the screenshots that you were firing straight, which is understandable from a testing viewpoint. However, just to state the obvious - if you're wanting to "juggle" the bullet, then angling your fire towards the bullet would be a safer option and would most likely "juggle" it before it reached you anyway.

matt · Post by **matt** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:17 pm 0

U-B wrote:It appears in the screenshots that you were firing straight, which is understandable from a testing viewpoint. However, just to state the obvious - if you're wanting to "juggle" the bullet, then angling your fire towards the bullet would be a safer option and would most likely "juggle" it before it reached you anyway.

I just wanted to get past the bullet without blowing up.