This game needs a good tutorial/Why I can relate to OXM Dan

[Nitrosoxide]

Anyways I bought this game after hearing the famous

Space Giraffe = Ulysess review.

The problem is I can’t figure out how I’ll ever find this game to be that great.

OXM Dan apprantly gave the game a 2/10 and was called out by Minter as "playing the game in about the most shit way possible, and being absolutely crap at it. The leaderboards also show a lot of other people playing the game rather well, so we know it's not the game at fault here. Basically he was just rubbish".

The problem is, I can relate to the situation OXM Dan is in. I didn’t understand hardly a word the tutorial said. Bulling? Jump pod? Umm… okay…

The game just isn't accessible and for a player who buys the game I simply don’t think that’s fair.

Those who are playing the game right have obviously figured out the mechanics. Those who aren’t have not. I’m one of those people. The tutorial is just really flawed and as I result I can see why it got negative reviews.

Sure some may call figuring out a game, dedication, or a task for the hardcore. But personally I’d call it torture.

It would be like trying to teach a kid to snowboard by sending him down a black diamond, only with no supervision or help. Sure there’s the odd one who is really freaking hardcore because he’s told that even if “he breaks his leg or gets a bruise” the end result will be so blissful that it’s worth it. But, really for the most part, how can a kid get incredibly injured and except to just, take it over and over again.

This is analogous with trying to figure out space giraffe.

But, perhaps Space giraffe’s design is analogous to the mountain, meaning that the mountain/space giraffe itself could be a hell of an experience if proper training was given.

So let me stress to the creator of this game that if all this game needs is for people to not play it in the “most shit way possible” then I urge for some sort of action to be taken in order to ensure this.

Would the team consider an update or heck even creating an official tutorial video that they could spread the word about. The main problem I had is that the wording in it wasn’t enough to tell me what exactly I should be achieving on screen.



In my option the tutorial really to need be “Simon Says” based sort to work well.
A good example of “Simon says” tutorial is Jet Grind Radio.

The tutorial is separated into single actions that you need to do correctly before moving on.

Each part begins by having another character telling you how to perform a certain action. Then you must perform that action correctly or “try again”. When you successfully imitate the computer controlled character you can move onto the next part of the tutorial.

Anyways, again I really do hope Minter and Co take my concern into their hands. I think that the only thing that needs to be done is making a good way to explain things.

[PVB]

Welcome Nitrosoxide, to the fluffiest forums on the net!

Jeff has admitted that the tutorial isn't understood by everyone and lessons have been learned for the next game, but there won't be any updates to SG (apart from the bug patch currently going through MS certification) due to the added costs and time involved.

The game was intended as a hark back to the old arcade games, where the only guide was a few pics on the cab and a brief attract sequence.

Is there anything specific you're stuck on?

Will this guide to the gameplay and enemies help:

http://www.medwaypvb.com/giraffe4.html

Or maybe viewing a few videos:

http://www.medwaypvb.com/giraffe3.html

HTH.

[Nitrosoxide]

Well Minter and the team really should at least attempt to make something or try and at least have a way to spread the knowledge on how to play it properly.

Can they update the game with even a video? Or can they add some sort of message at the end of the tutorial or in some point in the game that directs the player to a appropriate website to find the correct way to play the game...

I truly would prefer a redone tutorial as I'm sure a lot of reviewers would. Really I think that even with the extra money and development. Perhaps, a tutorial mode additional download cost be made and cost a couple Microsoft points to help pay for development.

I mean I think that a good tutorial is really not a option but a must for a game like this and whether the developers take the fancy route that will cost some extra bucks, or add a quick video. It should be done somehow...

Why leave would could be a appreciate game to only the so-called "hardcore" when perhaps a little more fine tuning could make the game that much more appreciated.

[Phineasfool]

I guess I must be different as the tutorial is what made me understand the game. At first I just jumped into the game and stupidly played it like Tempest. Then I played through the tutorial and everything made sense.

[rowan]

Do the tutorial a few times, read the menu help, read this

I'm still learning bits about SG after completing the last level.

[sack]

I haven't commented on the tutorial because I've read it far too many times for it to even hold any meaning any more so I can't really make any judgement.

but the blog entry did help me on my way with the game and no matter what the tutorial tells you patience is the only surefire way to hit the sweet spot. And I reckon it is absolutely worth it when you do.

What also helped me in an odd kind of way was Jeffs google presentation - particularly how he talks about favouring the calmer long-term arcade game over the immediate brutal assault. with that in mind I went back to the 360 and hit my stride just playing in a more relaxed and calm way, not letting the game hassle me into making mistakes.

I'm not saying that the developers rationale and mindset are what belong in a tutorial but sometimes a little outside reading helps you learn stuff

[choddo]

Yeah the blog is way better than the tutorial (that was a big subject of debate when it came out, believe me) and I even put a video on YouTube cos I agree it's too obscure. It seems it's unlikely Jeff will spend any more time on SG and there's a lot of player-base help material out there now.

Actually once you get a few basics right, it's really quite easy and you then have a fantastic learning curve which ebbs & flows as new enemies appear. Such a quality game. And the levels start to get really beautiful.

Plus, check out the FAQ thread in here. That will probably help.

[Yak]

don't worry, I've given up ambitious game design. Everything from now on will be obvious and simple.

[matt]

Can they update the game with even a video?

That's a really good idea.

It would be seperate from the game, and therefore not require any change to the code and re-certification of the game. It also need only involve Jeff and Giles in an advisory capacity, to help them rest up.

I'm not sure how much Microsoft would charge to add a video download, but the "tutorial video" could be free (preferred) or paid for (if they charge a lot to add it to XBLA).

matt

[Yak]

we put up a video of levels 1-9 way before it was even released. It basically shows me going through and rinsing the levels.

I'm finding it really hard to align with this whole idea that "difficulty isn't allowed any more". Back in the day part of your basic skillz was studying the damn thing and learning how to get the sweet points out of it. SG was designed in what I thought was the spirit of those times - yeah it's a twitch game but it also demands that you observe and learn so it's a puzzle game too, and maybe not the most obvious ways are the most most rewarding ways, but knowing the difference is what makes a good player - that's how it was and it was in that spirit that it was made; this is XBLA after all.

What arcade games were *not* was "painstakingly explained to you in excruciating detail" with players fucking moaning if they didn't have every little thing on a plate. There was a certain joy and pride in discovery, in learning how things worked for yourself, through experience.

That's all I tried to do with this game, but given the sheer fucking volume of whinging and moaning we've had to endure because of it I think that there really isn't any point any more; the old feeling and ideal of arcade games is truly lost, despite the name of the service that delivers them, and fuck you if you don't hand everything out on a silver salver to the hard of thinking with no motivation to actually fucking observe anything and learn for themselves.

Congratulations, OXM Dan and your ilk; you have won; everything from now on will be obvious, you'll never have to put in any more effort; just oress the button and you'll win. No more puzzles, no more discovery, no more cognitive effort required, just twitch'n'avoid, that's all you really think of these games after all, isn't it?

Well done.

You've won.

[shock combo]

hell i liked sg from go, because it was different its what the industry needs we dont need halo or fifa 27,
indy games like this is what everyones been asking for for years,
its got 100 levels, a tutorial, super ox mode, online high scores and the
demo even has 9 levels with the tutorial for a measly 400 points
hell i payed 800 for feeding frenzy (dont ask why)

my point is as fletcher would say "dont let the bastards grind you down"
its a very well designed game and im playing it more than any other at the mo

if people cant play it, learn and stop moaning

[Phineasfool]

This just handing the games to the players is why we hardly see any decent adventure games anymore. I mean imagine if gamers nowadays had to actually figure out the old babel fish puzzle.

[sack]

Oddly enough I was talking to a bloke in a club tonight about SG - he's had a 360 for a while, loves neon but was unaware of SGs existance.

Aparrently he'd tried live, got bored of the endless emulated classics and just assumed that's all live had to offer. he was smegged off that SG was sitting there and he didn't know about it.



not sure what can be done about that other than spreading the word....

[Anders]

There are always going to be some people who just don't get it, no matter how much you hold their hands and point things out to them. As for SG, I don't really see the issue. I played the tutorial, played the game, and managed to figure it out.

I'm a genius, I am.

[Glyndwr]

I found SG hard from the start. But fuck, the feeling of reward when you actually nail a hard level of fantastic. Okay so I'm not great at it. But I stuck in there and it really is good. So you may have to surf a little to find out how to play it right. Jeez, it's a kin arcade game where the instructions used to be a 3 inch panel next to the one fire button.

Yak, you're right. They don't want to work for they're enjoyment. They probably don't want to work for a living too.

Fucktards.