This game needs a good tutorial/Why I can relate to OXM Dan

[Phineasfool]

Jesus Christ, that one OXM UK guy earned my undying fucking hatred when he stated that SG "wasn't worth £3.40".

Fuck off. Just fuck RIGHT off. That cunt should be forced to endure, Clockwork-Orange style, every piece of shit game that has been released in the last 20 years for considerably more than three pound bloody forty. Arrogant fucking piece of shit knownothing CUNT. What the living smeg someone like that is doing in videogames journalism I don't fucking know.

Who the fuck gives these idiots jobs? FFS, I wouldn't trust that shithead to plug my joypad in, much less publish such ill-informed, inaccurate shit-witted opinions.

How unfortunate that the "official" magazine both sides of the Atlantic seems to be home to a bunch of fucking game-illiterate chimpanzees with nothing better to do than aimlessly fling shit. Jeez, to think I used to complain about Crash and Zzap being aimed at 14-year-olds; Crash and Zzap are the very Bard compared to this current shower.

Fuck me, how sad that it's come to this.

That's why I pretty much quite reading magazine reviews the past several years. The only thing I use them anymore is for the occasional preview. The average reviewer nowadays wouldn't know a decent game if it came up to them and beat the crap out of em. I think the prerequisite for being a magazine reviewer now is that you like the same old boring crap that gets pumped out each year and not like anything that tries to break the mold and be different.

[CheekyLee]

I speak here as a lifelong gamer since Space Invaders. I speak here as one who knows all about the old arcade mentality. I speak here as a (hopefully) future developer myself.

I avoided all the pre-launch videos, all the dev talk, and pretty much any discussion about SG. The first I saw of it was the second or two in the E3 video. This was enough to make me want to buy the game, and I would have gladly spent 800 MS points on it. 400? Fuck me, that is a gift from heaven itself!

However, I do have to say that the tutorial is less than ideal. Whilst it does explain what the power zone is, and does tell you about bulling, it doesn't really tell you how to score maximum points. Instead, you discover this by going through the Help option. Anybody who doesn't get the power zone really is a moron, but anyone who doesn't get how to score high is not necessarily one.

I can understand how people are confused by SG, even if I can't understand why they don't do that little bit of extra research. I can also understand why a developer wants to smack people who seemingly complain for the wrong reasons. But, any reason for complaint is actually valid to the person complaining. Being overly defensive and insulting just helps to add to the feeling of ostracism the complainer obviously has.

SG is beautiful. It is unique. It is challenging without ever being ridiculous. But, it seems unfair to start with, and the tutorial doesn't do enough to combat this. The Help file is much more useful, and the section that details how to get the Boi Bumba achievment is the most useful bit of all. Had THAT made it into the tutorial, I suspect that a fair few of those negative reviews would be a bit more positive.

[Kamineko]

Well, it is pretty ridiculous.

[PVB]

There's quite a pertinent quote here from GameCentral (the teletext gaming pages) concerning Spider-Man: Friend or Foe on the 360:

Quite why publishers have associated accessibility with the abolition of skill-based gameplay is a mystery but at this rate the next game will start with the message: "Press start to win."

[radio]

I must admit that the whole SG experience has made me much less ambitious as a designer. I'm working on GR+++ and whereas before I might have explored certain ideas more now I tend to find myself restricting what I do, simply because I know if I try anything too unusual I'll just have people moan and whinge about it or have to spend ages writing stupid tutorial modes (which people will moan about anyway).

It shouldn't make you less ambitious, it should (probably) make you want to make it more accessible, there's two real options really:

• > Keep the 'new' ideas, and make it as difficult for Joe Public to understand and 'get' as SG is, then *don't* take offence when it doesn't sell, they say that they don't understand it, and the only people that really get into it are the ones that remember you from back in the day.
  
  > Keep the 'new' ideas and make it accessible, intuitive and easy to understand, so that Joe Public thinks, 'I get it!', then wait for the praise and sales to roll in.

Space Giraffe's not a bad game by any means, but there are improvements that could be made to make it more accessible and better selling, without compromising the vision, these have been mentioned a million times before though. The industry's changed since the arcade days, and for the better, but you have to work with the change.

Also as has been said before:

Jesus Christ, that one OXM UK guy earned my undying fucking hatred...

Big change No.1 is that games professionals need to act professionally, or at least get a PR person to do it for them.

[oddbob0]

There's quite a pertinent quote here from GameCentral (the teletext gaming pages) concerning Spider-Man: Friend or Foe on the 360:

Quite why publishers have associated accessibility with the abolition of skill-based gameplay is a mystery but at this rate the next game will start with the message: "Press start to win."

Well quite, that's just as useless to anyone as the polar opposite.

There's still a fuck of a long way before a lot of the industry gets the accessibility thing - it's not all or nothing, far from it. But that's another thread in itself entirely.

I dunno, maybe it'd be an idea to drop Barrie Ellis of One Switch a line for GR++. He's a top bloke, loves trippy games and old school arcade games *and* has an ace understanding of what's needed accessibility wise without compromising a games vision.

He's chucked his oar in on a lot of projects for a few friends of mine, and for my own in limbo game and not one has turned out any less "hardcore" because of stuff he's pointed out. He's good, and a good man too and wouldn't ask you to break the game, promise.

[Nitrosoxide]

So with all this said and done. I think that the argument for a Tutorial is a strong one.


The pattern of review scores, honestly can not be defended. The game scored low, because its hard to figure out whats going on.

Your right that game reviewers who reviewed the game may have been playing it in a "shit way". But, think about just how hardcore game reviewers are.

They basically play video games for a living and have beaten games much more challenging then space giraffe. If games like MDK2, Ikaruga, Battletoads, the Contra Series have been able to get good recognition and respect from reviewers. Then there is no excuse that Space Giraffe should n't have been able to. If these guys can't figure the game out intuitively then honestly who can... Its as simple as that.


I definitely think that some games like the old fashion arcade games are self explanatory. Based on a simple interface. Space Invaders, Frogger, Pong, Pacman. But, I can not think of a great arcade game that really required you to figure out that much.

But, indeed figuring out the finer points of the game like tricks to get the highest score always will be remembered fondly. This is what makes the hard games like Battletoads and Contra great. Any idiot can figure out how to play them, but it takes skill to advance in the game.

Indeed you know what really "grind my gears". Is that Minter's own Tempest 3000 really played to this ideal. With the slogan "Easy to Learn, difficult to master" right on the cover.

http://www.thenuon.com/pixs/tempest_3000_cover.jpg


Honestly with all this said and done, I just think a official tutorial should be made. I understand that links to tutorials were posted in here. But, I definitely think that there should be one officially made.

Even if you can't include it in the game. Make one, post it in accessible places like the official website and send out a press release and get the story picked up by ign, etc to try and spread the word.


I think that way too many people I've talked to have had the same problem with this game. And honestly with so many people reporting they have problems I think that you guys as responsible developers should help them out.

I mean come on! We bought the damn thing, we want to know how to play it without having to jump through hoops to find a decent tutorial.

[PVB]

If these guys can't figure the game out intuitively then honestly who can... Its as simple as that.

Considering the UK Official Xbox Magazine even reported such blatant erros as there being a fire button, I doubt they even tried playing SG beyond starting one game.

Honestly with all this said and done, I just think a official tutorial should be made. I understand that links to tutorials were posted in here. But, I definitely think that there should be one officially made.

Even if you can't include it in the game. Make one, post it in accessible places like the official website and send out a press release and get the story picked up by ign, etc to try and spread the word.

I think that way too many people I've talked to have had the same problem with this game. And honestly with so many people reporting they have problems I think that you guys as responsible developers should help them out.

I mean come on! We bought the damn thing, we want to know how to play it without having to jump through hoops to find a decent tutorial.

There is a tutorial showing the basic gameplay in the actual game itself.

Also, there's an explanation/guide to the levels in the demo on the official Llamasoft site:

http://www.llamasoft.co.uk/blog/?p=10

[Nitrosoxide]

Thanks for the tutorial links....Any other good ones you can recommend? Videos with audio seem to help the most for me.

That link seems to more or less explain the levels, rather then the gameplay mechanics.. Which is what I'm still confused about. Didn't jeff mention that he did a voice over walk through of the tutorial? Or didn't someone do this?


As for game reviews, I'm actually more referring to ign.com in my example.

[Jedburgh]

I mean come on! We bought the damn thing, we want to know how to play it without having to jump through hoops to find a decent tutorial.

Y'know, there's a very good reason why you're able to sit online, whining about how unfair it is that no-one will teach you how to play a videogame, rather than, for example, sitting in a tree wondering when tasty berries will grow again and hoping that scary-fang-beast won't climb up the tree and eat you tonight.

Just saying.

[Kamineko]

I mean come on! We bought the damn thing, we want to know how to play it without having to jump through hoops to find a decent tutorial.

Y'know, there's a very good reason why you're able to sit online, whining about how unfair it is that no-one will teach you how to play a videogame, rather than, for example, sitting in a tree wondering when tasty berries will grow again and hoping that scary-fang-beast won't climb up the tree and eat you tonight.

Just saying.

Yep. They went to school.

[sirenbrian]

What about putting two tutorials in? A basic one for "hardcore" players who want to figure out strategy on their own, and a "spoiler" one that gives up a lot more information, perhaps with actual moving examples on screen. Like it could show an example of letting grunts through while shooting enough of them to keep the PZ extended, then bulling them off. Then the same thing, but waiting for an intervening flower to die first. There could be a suitably disdainful warning before playing the spoiler tutorial, that its more fun not to watch this, but figure it out for yourself etc.

Also, I'd suggest monitoring the player's actions for a few minutes. If they don't use a hoof shot at all, gently interrupt and point it out to them. This would be a much harder game if you didn't know the hoof shot was there.

That said, I'm up to about 117 million and have reached level 64. It's sad that a relative plonker like me is #69 on the all-time leaderboard.

[PVB]

What about putting two tutorials in? A basic one for "hardcore" players who want to figure out strategy on their own, and a "spoiler" one that gives up a lot more information, perhaps with actual moving examples on screen. Like it could show an example of letting grunts through while shooting enough of them to keep the PZ extended, then bulling them off. Then the same thing, but waiting for an intervening flower to die first. There could be a suitably disdainful warning before playing the spoiler tutorial, that its more fun not to watch this, but figure it out for yourself etc.

Also, I'd suggest monitoring the player's actions for a few minutes. If they don't use a hoof shot at all, gently interrupt and point it out to them. This would be a much harder game if you didn't know the hoof shot was there.

That said, I'm up to about 117 million and have reached level 64. It's sad that a relative plonker like me is #69 on the all-time leaderboard.

There won't be any further updates/changes to Space Giraffe, so no good speculating on it.

[sirenbrian]

That's a good point, but I think it could apply to future Llamasoft games too.

[axel000]

Here is a very simple idea that would probably increase SG sales, even now. Before I get to the idea though, lets cover some of the issues likely reducing sales :

1. People don't notice it as its no longer on the new releases list, and is what, number 30 or so in the list of 60+ titles on there now (should have named it starting with the letter A)

2. People that do try it and don't know where to go online for extra help are generally screwed. Just look at the high score table and all the people that barely made it past level 10.

Solutions.

1. The only way to get noticed again is to get back into the New Releases section of XBLA. You may have noticed that XBLA games released more than a year ago regularly appear back in here. Why ? because they add a simple theme or add on to their game and the XBLA front end considers it a new title. Thats smart marketing. More on this later.

2. We know there is no chance of updating SG itself, however, a simple WMV / MPG video with narrative showing the finer points of gameplay could do wonders to engender interest in the title. Have a nice lady do the voice over. Do not include digs at OXM DAN, gamers that don't get it etc.

So my idea ? Make a nice trailer video that demonstrates how to play and the concept behind audio cues being as important as visual. Send it in for cert (can't be that hard now can it, its just a friggn video). Voila, your game is back in the new releases list right around or after the holidays when new owners are looking for XBLA titles to buy, and 2 - the tutorial issue is fixed and done.

Seriously I can see no rationale reason NOT to do this.