Yak quoted in Escapist article- Microsoft cert is crap

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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Post by PVB »

Yak wrote:Yeah, best way is STeem, set the emulated CPU speed to 32MHz as well, it runs lovely.

Best way until I do Super Llamatron anyway :).
And 4MB :sheep: too, especially for Rude Llamatron. 8)

360 controller works well too. :)

Edit:

Here's a thread about dual analog controller settings in STeem:

http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?t=3710

I'll re-upload the images once I get home. :)
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Post by Muphex »

Yak wrote:Yeah, best way is STeem, set the emulated CPU speed to 32MHz as well, it runs lovely.

Best way until I do Super Llamatron anyway :).

:D
:D

oh and another

:D

Super Llamatron........oh hang on I've had a bit of an accident......back in a mo!
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Post by Dave »

teamonkey wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:Besides have anyone ever seen ONCE SG appear on the banners/etc. of XBLA since it's been out ?
I saw it a few times the week it was released. I can't say I even register what's on them most of the time, to be honest.
Yeah, it had billboard ads up for 1 week. All new XBLA games tend to get that.

MS has more incentive to promote XBLA rather than individual games. They make money regardless of what game is purchased (though I'm sure some garner them more royalties than others).

If they promote XBLA as a whole, peeps just need to find one game they like, regardless of what it is, and MS takes some cash.

It's like a video store in a sense. They don't care what movie you rent, so long as you rent "a" movie.

But it's like that with retail games too. MS only really heavily promotes those games it has a large investment in, and "mildly" promotes the rest. It's really up to publishers to handle that load. The same occurs on other consoles too.

It's also fair in a way. Publishers can't complain that a 1st party is biased, which would chase away content in the long-run.
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Post by gilesgoat »

Dave wrote:
teamonkey wrote:
gilesgoat wrote:Besides have anyone ever seen ONCE SG appear on the banners/etc. of XBLA since it's been out ?
I saw it a few times the week it was released. I can't say I even register what's on them most of the time, to be honest.
Yeah, it had billboard ads up for 1 week. All new XBLA games tend to get that.

MS has more incentive to promote XBLA rather than individual games. They make money regardless of what game is purchased (though I'm sure garner them more royalties than others).

If they promote XBLA as a whole, peeps just need to find one game they like, regardless of what it is, and MS takes some cash.

It's like a video store in a sense. They don't care what movie you rent, so long as you rent "a" movie.

But it's like that with retail games too. MS only really heavily promotes those games it has a large investment in, and "mildly" promotes the rest. It's really up to publishers to handle that load. The same occurs on other consoles too.
Yes, very true .. but then again that becomes a problem for the developer.

The more movies are in, the more your "movie" is lost among all the others.

Eventually in time it may happen that people while trying one movie and
another they will stumble across your movie as well but meanwhile time passes.

The owner of the store, providing there are enough movies, will never
do too bad in business but for the individual movie maker that's all another story, you
need people getting YOUR movie not just "a movie" and you need
as many as possible and as fast as possible get it.

Of course it would be someway counter-productive for the store owner
to maybe focus "too much" on one movie unless it's a big seller.

Moral of the story .. we'll return back to "the usual problem", it's up to
the developer of the movie to do all his best to promote his own movie
the store is just there to distribute it and promote it a bit, if it does
not get an immediate peak that's strong enough then it's left by itself
and it's time to move to the new movie of the week.

The biggest the store gets the more movies are in the harder it gets
and sometime the more the quantity increases the less you can be
arsed to spend time watching all through that stuff to see what you can find.

It's a bit like when you are (well, were) in a tapes rental place looking
for a movie to rent for the week end and after you spent 1 hour watching
movie covers and reading about them you start to have no fucking clue
about what you wanted, what you are looking at and what's really good or not :?

Then of course, as it usually happens, 1 year later or so in some ways
you discover there was the "strafucking good movie" made by people
you never heard about, that nobody ever mentioned in no place if not
maybe some obscure magazine with not famous actors you never seen
before and that then makes you think "fuck me I wish I saw this before".

And then maybe you ask yourself "why this people never made ANOTHER
movie ?" and you discover that they never made any good money from the first one, they
sold too few of it, they all went bust and they don't exists/make movies any more :?

Thoughts then .. hmm ..

"You must hit big first and you must hit big enough" - you need the cash.

"Make as many movies as you can"

( very bad but true ) "as long as you find something that work re-use it until it totally stops to give you anything" - 1,2,3,4,5,6 ... sequel syndrome

"It does not matter what critics says about it all that matters is how much it sells"

"Can you make people see things differently ?" - "Do people (moltitutde of) really want to see things differently ?"

Does it all sound a bit like the movie industry really isn't it ?

If all that would work A BIT MORE reasonably better it still would be
possible to bypass all that a bit and, small developers, would have lot
better chanches to take out stuff.

But now I am really cynic and looks to me it really does not work that
bit more better that would be enough .. so .. so "well yeah, it's another
video store a bit new they opened down the street" ..

Cool .. nice .. back to work, the movie must go on.

"When we'll have those 50K copies we'll see again".

But meanwhile .. old .. new or whatever the fuck the goal are those 50K copies .. without those new or old it does not matter I won't be able
to make a second movie anyway :?
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Post by Dave »

You nailed it Giles.

One thing MS could do is change the UI of XBLA. There needs to be a better way of sorting through the masses. There are categories and such, but they're too vague.

Instead, there should be a recommendations engine. "People like you also bought these game..." A top sellers list. All-time, past year, past month, past week. A star rating system, with commentaries. Amazon.com if you will.

That would help alleviate the problem, some, but it won't solve it.

Also, you can still promote SG to drive up sales. XBLA isn't all about who sells the most in the first week, and that's it. That's it's biggest advantage over retail - it's not off the new shelf and in the bargain bin 3 months later.

You can still be promoting it in non-mainstream ways to try and drive sales. SG is still band new to anyone who's never played it.
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Post by Dave »

Yak wrote:I'm in a really odd place right now, especially with the new game really starting to shape up and feel good - but how can I trust my feelings about it after what happened last time? is "being any good" actually connected to "doing well" any more?
Well, you've done really well in the past, so you've got "the stuff" to make something that's addictive and fun.

You've made blunders here and there in the past too. Nobody is perfect. D2K had its flaws. Deflex and Hover Bovver, while fun, weren't in the same league as Gridrunner++. You're successes are numerous, however.

I don't think SG is as much of a blunder, rather than a game that appealed to your core audience perfectly. But to newcomers, it was too difficult to grasp.

In other words, for someone like me who "got" and played T2K to death, which was a relatively complex evolving gameplay experience, easily grasped the concepts of SG because it was a natural evolution from T2K. I know how your games play out, so learning the new ones is really easy for llamasofties like me (even though they're NOT easy, you cunt :P ).

SG just had a really difficult learning curve to it, especially for new players who've never seen your work before. I think people have to play your level 1 difficulty games, and then level 2 difficulty games, before they can finally move onto level 3 and appreciate SG.

Paintings all look like paint until you've become intelligent enough to understand the stories behind them. That's why children run around museums, and adults stare in awe.

I don't think you did "wrong" with SG. Yeah, there are flaws here and there, but it IS a good game at heart. :) I'd just go with something simpler the next time around to capture a broader audience. Gridrunner++, definitely in that league.

But either way, you KNOW how to make good games. It's not something you forget how to do.
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Post by toxibunny »

so how has SG done then? not compared to 'name' stuff like alien hominid (or whtvr it's called), but compared to the average...

if it's done worse than the jetpac reloaded, then I'm fecking appalled...
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Post by gilesgoat »

toxibunny wrote:so how has SG done then? not compared to 'name' stuff like alien hominid (or whtvr it's called), but compared to the average...

if it's done worse than the jetpac reloaded, then I'm fecking appalled...
In a word .. "bad" .. I don't know if it would be proper to reveal the
figures so far but .. well .. not really that well :(

I think that really despite everything you would not expect this ..

Nuff said ..
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Post by Yak »

that's the thing, I don't think we *have* done badly compared to the average where that means "average of new IP" as opposed to emus and ports of old, well known games. And I don't think it's anything to do with the nature of SG or the tutorial mode or the diff curve or aught, as I mentioned before pretty much exactly the same profile is being observed on other, less contentious titles.

Simply put, "old stuff that people kinda remember" seems to be doing a lot better than "new stuff people haven't herd of".
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Post by gilesgoat »

That's the "double thing" we did not make bad compared to the average
of the "new games".

So basically this proves only one, sad point, that is XBLA == bad for "new games", ok for "remakes of famous stuff".

[edit] - I really hope to see a different story in PC distribution, I have
no fucking clue about what's going to happen but I am very curious to
see the results.

Expectations of XBLA, so far "not what I hoped".

Expectations of PC, "I don't expect anyting, I just hope it will work a bit better and if not I hope at least not worse".
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Post by toxibunny »

...time to do some marketing then/build up the IP? :S

shame like, I guess the X360 guys don't remember you... or maybe it *was* because you didn't call SG "attack of the mutant radioactive space giraffes from the dimension at the edge of time"

...dunno.

-don't give up though... believe it or not, you *have* got IP. and new IP at that. you did the old pre-neon-thingy, which is the new stuff... plus there's the old llamasoft back catalogue, which *doesn't* count for nothing... you just need the right tweaking.

*sigh* ah well. gawd bless the steady (but small) income of X360LMKPLC... it'll keep you in noodles and firewood until the next one...





...looking forward to ancipital360 meself, like ;) :P
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Post by gribbles »

Must be tough for the two of you. FWIW, there's a good lump of folks here who understand and are offering support in spirirt (as well as buying stuff :))

It's a shame, really, because XBLA has so much potential to really push new stuff and help it do well. It definately needs a better front end - I think they've reached the tipping point in terms of numbers so that the simple list and (crap) categories view are just too clumsy.

Ratings are always a bit iffy, unless they're backed up with comments. How much argume - er - discussion has there been over ratings scores on here before? However, it shouldn't be too hard to come up with a popularity statistic based on number of times bought/played agains how long it's been out or something. It's too early for mr to think about that sensibly. But I'm sure greater minds than mine could come up with something.

The saving grace is, Yak and Giles are obviousl going to keep plugging away. Good on yer, guys. We know you can write games and understand gameplay and what games that should be on XBLA should play like. So let's say another 2 or 3 games down the line, you rlease a game that clicks with someone. They love it, play it to death - what's the next thing they'll do? IMO, buy the rest of your back catalogue on XBLA (as long as they know about it - I'd seriously recommend advertising you older XBLA games in the newer ones). So what you've got are sleeper hits.

Which is nice, but not much help in keeping a roof over your heads and curry in your bellys in the short term...

Hang in there, guys. I hope the hardest part is behind you and the reward you deserve not too far ahead....
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Post by zip accident »

gribbles wrote:

I'd seriously recommend advertising your older XBLA games in the newer ones
I agree. You don't want it to become annoying on repetition, but it needs to be there quietly, maybe a menu item players can open on demand?
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Post by Governmentyard »

Is it bad form to fantasise about Unity on Wiiware or something in this thread? Seeing as a lot of work on it has already been done and the platform is suddenly twice as powerful with an impending downloadable original ip service?

It is 'pwned' by Lionhead/Microsoft nowadays though in such a way as to not be something anything could ever happen with now?
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Post by Yak »

One thing I've thought of doing is have a set of levels in GR+++ that are only available to people who have already got SG. We'll see.

And I think the chances of me changing platform and restarting Unity are pretty much zero given my budget of £0, even if I wanted to.
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