SPACE

[Dio]

You are completely overlooking the fact that the Sun has a finite life

Are you actually, genuinely serious with this statement? When you said something akin to that above I thought you were being sarcastic about environmentalists, but now I'm not so sure?

Yes there is nothing outlandish about having a long term viewpoint, doesn't mean any of this is happening remotely soon. Incremental steps are better than no steps.

How many times! These are not incremental steps. Show me one technology on use on any current project that has even the slightest relevance to interstellar travel.

I'm quite astonished that you can view this kind of thinking as not remotely outlandish, and I'll spare the obvious platitudes.

[axel000]

I think you may be suffering from a lack of imagination This does not require new forms of propulsion, indeed ion engines augmented by rocket engines for an initial boost will steadily accelerate to a speed that would move a large ship at a clip fast enough to reach the next star system in under 100 years.

We have already launched several probes that use ion propulsion after the initial rocket boost phase.

The ISS is a test of long term existence in the vacuum of space, a suitable rehearsel for a long steller trek.

These are all incremental steps. We didn't go from the wright brothers to the B2 without making a few steps along the way, its the nature of engineering. This is really just an engineering challenge after all.



NASA paper on future uses of ion thrusters.

[Duck Turkin]

I think you may be suffering from a lack of imagination This does not require new forms of propulsion, indeed ion engines augmented by rocket engines for an initial boost will steadily accelerate to a speed that would move a large ship at a clip fast enough to reach the next star system in under 100 years.

We have already launched several probes that use ion propulsion after the initial rocket boost phase.

The ISS is a test of long term existence in the vacuum of space, a suitable rehearsel for a long steller trek.

These are all incremental steps. We didn't go from the wright brothers to the B2 without making a few steps along the way, its the nature of engineering. This is really just an engineering challenge after all.

I'm with Dio here.
The jump to interstellar travel is a huge one, and we are facing a the barrier that is the distance between our planet and another potentially habitable one (assuming there are of course). This can't be overcome by using ion propulsion or by any other method of propulsion that isn't (for now) in the realms of science fiction. Anyway, there are robots that can do all this that are cheaper, expendable, and don't need all the luxuries humans need like gravity or air.

[Dio]

I think you may be suffering from a lack of imagination This does not require new forms of propulsion, indeed ion engines augmented by rocket engines for an initial boost will steadily accelerate to a speed that would move a large ship at a clip fast enough to reach the next star system in under 100 years.

Think this through. We're not talking about just getting to the nearest star - we're talking about the nearest habitable planet. I'd consider adding two to three orders of magnitude to your target range as a conservative estimate.

And then there's the energy budget. Work that one out...

There is very little new science between the Wright Brothers and the B2. Just a lot of engineering.

[GeeZa]

If I had to spend a 100 years on a pokey old ship travelling through the bleakness of space on the half-chance that the planet we're going to might kinda be worth it, crammed in with a load of other tedious space-survival-tourists, well I think I'd rather go out with the Dinosaurs. As far as I can tell space is really REALLY boring.

[axel000]

If I had to spend a 100 years on a pokey old ship travelling through the bleakness of space on the half-chance that the planet we're going to might kinda be worth it, crammed in with a load of other tedious space-survival-tourists, well I think I'd rather go out with the Dinosaurs. As far as I can tell space is really REALLY boring.

True, however again this is a mission probably at least 200-300 years out. Would we really send adult humans or animals for that matter ? No. We'd send cryogenically frozen eggs and sperm, they'd be fertilized probably a few years out from orbit. There would be AI robotics on the ship to raise the human children and animals. 300 years out and all of this will probably be quite doable.

As for not knowing if a habitable planet is there, we will probably be able to tell this in the next ten to twenty years with the advances in telescopes. We are anticipated to be within ten years of determining the chemical makeup of the atmosphere of planets in other planetary systems, thanks to the James Webb and other telecopes coming online.

[zip accident]

Would we really send adult humans or animals for that matter ?

I think the "Universe"/"Generation" ship is quite plausible, and for that you might as well have adults. In fact, why make it a ship at all in the first instance? Which leads us back to humans living in space clear of any planets. When you need a ship, attach a drive to an existing large scale habitat.

[GeeZa]

If I had to spend a 100 years on a pokey old ship travelling through the bleakness of space on the half-chance that the planet we're going to might kinda be worth it, crammed in with a load of other tedious space-survival-tourists, well I think I'd rather go out with the Dinosaurs. As far as I can tell space is really REALLY boring.

True, however again this is a mission probably at least 200-300 years out. Would we really send adult humans or animals for that matter ? No. We'd send cryogenically frozen eggs and sperm, they'd be fertilized probably a few years out from orbit. There would be AI robotics on the ship to raise the human children and animals. 300 years out and all of this will probably be quite doable.

My prediction is an AI memory leak due to the code being outsourced, the androids eat the babies and then steer the ship towards the Callesa IV White Dwarf and go down in beautiful flames whilst Van Halen blasts on the ship's PA system. Humanity over.

[Dio]

More plausible than success, at least .

[F-ZeroOne]

You know, Joe Haldeman once wrote that space travel is both the fastest and slowest form of transport ever invented...

[craigt]

If I had to spend a 100 years on a pokey old ship travelling through the bleakness of space on the half-chance that the planet we're going to might kinda be worth it, crammed in with a load of other tedious space-survival-tourists, well I think I'd rather go out with the Dinosaurs. As far as I can tell space is really REALLY boring.

You've also got the issue that within those 100 years, mankind back on earth may have developed a newer, faster method of travel. When you get to the new world, you may have a welcome party from people who overtook you 10 years ago

[funkstar]

I think some people here are underestimating just how vast and inhospitable interstellar space really is.

As Dio pointed out, going to the Moon, Mars or any of Sol's planets aren't steps to sending anything anywhere fast. Even the Voyager probes - launched 30 years ago and some of the fastest man-made objects ever - have barely left the solar system, and are millions of years from reaching anything like nearest-star distances. Add another couple of powers of ten for nearest extra-solar habitable planet, and the timescales start to look pretty unreasonable.

And then there's problem that quite probably everything (as is every thing) we send into the interstellar medium will probably be an irrecognizable lump by the time it gets anywhere (if it gets anywhere), due to collisions with high-energy particles.

[zip accident]

I think some people here are underestimating just how vast and inhospitable interstellar space really is.

It's darker and colder than stellar space, but that's about it.

As Dio pointed out, going to the Moon, Mars or any of Sol's planets aren't steps to sending anything anywhere fast. Even the Voyager probes - launched 30 years ago and some of the fastest man-made objects ever - have barely left the solar system, and are millions of years from reaching anything like nearest-star distances.

There are comets a long way out, but still of this system. On that level, I don't think the Voyagers have yet left the solar system.

Add another couple of powers of ten for nearest extra-solar habitable planet, and the timescales start to look pretty unreasonable.

And then there's problem that quite probably everything (as is every thing) we send into the interstellar medium will probably be an irrecognizable lump by the time it gets anywhere (if it gets anywhere), due to collisions with high-energy particles.

I quite like the idea of hollowed out rocks as habitats because you can leave enough rock rock to be somewhat effective against that. If it's long term viable, it doesn't matter how slowly it goes. Just don't expect anyone used to that to want to go down to the surface of a gravity well anytime soon, so who needs planets, though ice and rocks in orbit is probably good.

Difficult is a given. It always was, it always will be. We are adapted to Earth, so well that we no longer realise how difficult it is here. We will need to adapt to space. There will be tradjedies, we should try to minimise them, but they shouldn't stop us. There was The Tenerife Crash but people still go on holiday by airliner.

[axel000]

I think some people here are underestimating just how vast and inhospitable interstellar space really is.

As Dio pointed out, going to the Moon, Mars or any of Sol's planets aren't steps to sending anything anywhere fast. Even the Voyager probes - launched 30 years ago and some of the fastest man-made objects ever - have barely left the solar system, and are millions of years from reaching anything like nearest-star distances. Add another couple of powers of ten for nearest extra-solar habitable planet, and the timescales start to look pretty unreasonable.

And then there's problem that quite probably everything (as is every thing) we send into the interstellar medium will probably be an irrecognizable lump by the time it gets anywhere (if it gets anywhere), due to collisions with high-energy particles.

Oh come on now, use some imagination. The speed issue - well the voyager craft are rocket based and stopped accelerating back in the 1970s. As I mentioned, ion based propulsion could give you constant acceleration for decades, increasing your maximum speed exponentially. Second, the collission with particles issue is easily rectified by putting a shield up front. There is one good example right now, the latest Solar probe...The spacecraft’s most prominent feature is the Thermal Protection System (TPS), comprising a large 2.7-m diameter carbon–carbon conical primary shield with a low-conductivity, low-density secondary shield attached to its base. The TPS protects the spacecraft bus and instruments within its umbra during the solar encounter

Of course we will never succeed if we keep telling ourselves we can't. Thankfully there are visionaries that believe we can.

[Dio]

And that's still not a wacky belief, right?