Android or iPhone?

[benedictw]

I imagine that if the version issues become bad for android a lot of users will just say "fuck this shit" and get an iPhone when it's time to upgrade.

I must admit that my longing for an Android phone has taken a nosedive after reading this.

[piku]

Release early, release often and piss off your userbase by making their hardware obsolete

[matt303]

Release early, release often and piss off your userbase by making their hardware obsolete

Not helped by contract periods of 18 and 24 months being the norm now.

[Deckard]

All credit to Apple as v3 software will run on a first gen iPhone.

[Darkflame]

On the other hand, Apple have no incentive to release any software that reduces there own profit margins. Hence their dislike for flash.
So the choice seems to be "potentially miss out on features due to the phone maker not giving you updates" or "potentially miss out on features because the OS maker doesn't want you to have them"

[Guru-Meditation]

I imagine that if the version issues become bad for android a lot of users will just say "fuck this shit" and get an iPhone when it's time to upgrade.

For now the manufacturers are doing an OK job. Even the trusty ol' G1 is apparently getting 2.1.

Pushing the idea of hardware upgrades has worked so far for Apple. If I had to make ill-informed guesses I'd say Google will look out for customer dissatisfaction with the OS upgrade system and figure out a better solution for it. For now the "killer" 2.1 features are:

a) Turn by turn directions on Google Maps (granted this is sexy)
b) Exchange mail (which you could get with Touchdown)
c) Couple of extra home screens

Outside of the GPS most of the "must-have Android" features I love existed in 1.5 (widgets in particular) or come from apps which work in 1.5 (Swype, Locale).

Where Google have to watch out is less with the end users and more with the developers. They will lose a lot of rep with the people they won over from Apple's store policies if those developers now have to worry about supporting old versions of Android software.

All credit to Apple as v3 software will run on a first gen iPhone.

Not too hard considering a) there's only 3 phones that Apple worries about and b) there's hardly any spec differences between them beyond adding a few features here and there (3G, GPS etc). Unless 4th gen is a radically different phone original iPhone users should be getting the same upgrades as everyone else for a while. It'd be a daft company who would say "Sorry but this version of our OS absolutey requires 3g and a digital compass to work."

On the other hand, Apple have no incentive to release any software that reduces there own profit margins. Hence their dislike for flash.

Similar thing with Google Voice. Not everyone is in the same boat as me but I love that I can call an international number and Google Voice automatically kicks in to save me money. I am amused that Google made a web version of it because they couldn't get it through the app store

To be fair to Apple there's a fair amount you can do with HTML5 and the canvas element and the iPhone will support that.

[piku]

Where Google have to watch out is less with the end users and more with the developers. They will lose a lot of rep with the people they won over from Apple's store policies if those developers now have to worry about supporting old versions of Android software.

And having to write in Java, playing the game of "how much can I get away with before the garbage collector wakes up and kills performance".

150ms to collect garbage, even if there is none... do that in your game loop and bye-bye framerates.

[sack]

I made my choice in the end - I was concerned about the different OS/hardware combinations of android and wondered where I'd be in 1 years time.

Figured the iPhone was the way to go (3G - because I'm on a bit of a budget and the 3GS was a bit out of my range right now).

[Darkflame]

PC's are still here, with all there configurations over the years.

Incidently, I got a HTC Legend. Flash working nicely. (too slow for most newgrounds stuff though)
Easy to develop for. Lovely OLED Screen.
Not perfect however, two of the apps I want arnt in the Android store yet due to (apparently) google being slow approving something. You can download one of them manually elsewhere though.

[GrapeApe]

PC's are still here, with all there configurations over the years.

Incidently, I got a HTC Legend. Flash working nicely. (too slow for most newgrounds stuff though)
Easy to develop for. Lovely OLED Screen.
Not perfect however, two of the apps I want arnt in the Android store yet due to (apparently) google being slow approving something. You can download one of them manually elsewhere though.

Just out of interest, what are the two apps you are talking about?

I've got hold of a Legend too, was quite tempted by the Desire but the size and build quality of the Legend won me over.

The new Android handsets that are coming out do seem to have rattled Mr Jobs' cage somewhat.

[Darkflame]

Layar and Google Goggles.
Google Goggles I managed to download at http://www.androidfreeware.org/ and it works great. (I mean really great...impressive stuff)
Layar doesnt seem to be possible to use on the Legend yet.

I was basicaly in the same position, chosing between the Legend and the Desire. What tipped it for me was the fact the Legend cost 40euros +2 years on our contract, but the Desire required +2 years on our contract and a 20euro a month data plan for the whole of those 2 years. (which really wouldn't have been use all that much, given we get free internet at trainstations due to our ISP).

The desire did interest me somewhat though. The Legend has such a nice screen already, I'm quite curious if the (significant) resolution bump on the Desire.

The new Android handsets that are coming out do seem to have rattled Mr Jobs' cage somewhat.

Have they? I heard Apple was suing over some stuff. (stuff that to the lay person screamed "prior-art!"). Not sure what became of it though.

Not sure how much Flash is really going to factor into things. It works flawlessly on my Legend so far. Its just clearly too slow for most recent flash games. And games is pretty much flash's main advantage, given video can be run nicely in html5.

Then again, Apple banning even App-Store stuff made with or ver, flash is a bit of a dick move. Cant see them winning many friends as they get progressively more closed in what they allow. Not just flash but stuff like Unity engine isnt allowed now either.


oh, btw, download the Tricorder App. Its made of Win. (all real data too).

[piku]

PC's are still here, with all there configurations over the years.

Yes, but you don't buy your PC on a contract for £30-£40 quid a month, with the sole source of the PC's operating system being the people you're renting it from. Your PC is designed to have a life of more than two years. Mobile phones aren't, so there's no incentive to produce OS upgrades since until the iPhone and Android phones came out, there wasn't even the concept of an "OS Upgrade" to bother about. Before those, you either bought some generic handset or a "Windows 5" or "Windows 6" smartphone with a non-upgradeable OS.

The innards of my T-Mobile G1 are not the same as the innards of a Samsung Android phone, or a Motorola Android phone - they don't even have the same CPU.

And that's the problem with Android - Handset owners (i.e you, me, etc) see and hear about "Android 2.1" and want it on their handsets. Handset providers (Orange, T-Mobile, etc) don't care because it don't make them money, and Google/Android just write the OS and not the "glue" for the specific chips in the handsets.

Without the iTunes sync bit of an iPhone, and the fact an iPhone is a set piece of hardware, they'd be having exactly the same problems.

Not perfect however, two of the apps I want arnt in the Android store yet due to (apparently) google being slow approving something. You can download one of them manually elsewhere though.

There is no approval process for Android Marketplace apps - http://developer.android.com/guide/publ ... tml#market

Maybe your phone isn't supported, both Layar's "Reality Browser 3.0" and Google Goggles are in the Marketplace on my G1.

[GrapeApe]

Apparently the layar issue maybe something to do with the camera on the Legend. Can't remember the source but HTC and Google are supposed to be looking into it.

[Darkflame]

I vaguely heard that but couldnt get a definitive source. I just stared the google complaint thread.
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=7591

PC's are still here, with all there configurations over the years.

Yes, but you don't buy your PC on a contract for £30-£40 quid a month, with the sole source of the PC's operating system being the people you're renting it from. Your PC is designed to have a life of more than two years. Mobile phones aren't

If my phone has a built in obsolescence of just 2 years, someone the fuck is getting a complaint by tradeing standards.
2 fucking years? No.
We shouldn't except that kinda shit from company's. Theres phones are about $400-500 now. The fact we sometimes defer the cost over contract period doesn't change that fact.

Yes, but you don't buy your PC on a contract for £30-£40 quid a month

Many people dont with phones either.

Without the iTunes sync bit of an iPhone, and the fact an iPhone is a set piece of hardware, they'd be having exactly the same problems.

Microsoft kept producing updates for older versions of windows for a long time. No set hardware there either.
In fact, I think theres still critical updates for Windows2000 and its 2010 now.

This is also ignoring the fact, I can load whatever the fuck I want on. If theres enough users on the platform, people will be coding their own OS versions if Google drops support, or the manufactures dont make easy updates.
Its certainly not a ideal route.
Better is simply carriers getting a bad rep if they don't update older phones to newer release's. If one updates and the others dont, that could become a factor for customers choseing.

But thinking about it...does it even mater?

People don't update their PC's OS's that often anyway. Some not untill they get a new PC.
So even with no OS updating at all, the PC still seems good evidence for the survival of highly variable platforms.

(Incidentaly, when I compile a app out, I notice settings for the minimum spec required on an Android phone. I suspect if my app needs something, it think wont even show up in the App store for users that dont have it.)

[tufty]

People don't update their PC's OS's that often anyway. Some not untill they get a new PC.

Not the case for Apple, and the upgrades are normally paid. New OS uptake is around 95%, IIRC. But then they release new versions that actually do new things, run faster, and so on - the cost and hassle is usually well worth the effort to get a machine that runs faster than before and does more stuff.

Linux users tend (in my experience) to update their OSs regularly as well, despite the fact that major upgrades can (and have done a few times for me) fsck over some or all of the software you have installed. Again, though, the gain of the upgrade is usually worth the hassle (cost being "less of an issue").

Does this extend to phones? Fucked if I know, I don't even have a mobile.