iPad

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tufty
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Re: iPad

Post by tufty »

juice wrote:Apple hardware massively expensive as compared to PC clones: iPad: £439. iClone: £80 inc. delivery.
Compare like for like, man. That's like comparing a Mac Pro to a 250 quid supermarket special.

One of these has a 1Ghz Cortex-A8 processor with an OpenGL ES 3 / OpenCL enabled graphics chip, a 10" multitouch screen and 26MB of onchip ram on a 64-bit bus. It has a milled aluminium case and a 10 hour battery life.
The other has a ~200Mhz Arm 9 core with no coprocessor, a 7" resistive single touch touchscreen, and 128MB of memory on a 32 bit bus. It has a shoddy plastic case and a 1.5 hour battery life.

The only things you can realistically compare the iPad to are machines that provide something close to its performance. The £80 clone isn't in the same city, let alone the same ballpark. And for the machines with similar power - the (predicted) prices are similar. The Streak is probably the closest thing out there at the moment, but it's (depending on your outlook) either a fat smartphone or a very small tablet. I disagree with regards to their margins - it's more likely to have close to zero margins on initial release, with expected return coming as demand grows and the design is further refined.
juice wrote:Windows running on available hardware: it's not a direct parallel, but Android is freely "copyable" across the iClones, whereas the iOS can only be installed on iDevices
Apps are copyable, yes. The OS is not, and needs to be specially compiled per platform. You need specialised hardware knowledge to build a kernel for any given SoC. That knowledge isn't given by Google, it comes from the SoC manufacturers - if you're using an off the shelf part, you're relying on the manufacturer for your updates. the upshot of this is that the majority of non name-brand android tablets might as well be considered as non-upgradeable and effectively disposable, in the same way that mobile phones are.
juice wrote:Android OS cost vs iPhone OS cost: Google shoulders the cost of developing Android: the iClone manufacturers don't pay a penny. Apple has to cover the cost of developing iPhone OS
Google shoulders the cost of developing the Android layer. The kernel, as I mentioned before, is down to the manufacturers, and they don't have a great deal to gain by having large amounts of manpower tied up in doing kernel development, especially for older parts. Apple already had iPhone OS, and had leveraged a good deal of that from OSX. It comes (largely) for free as far as they are concerned. One update hits multiple platforms, and so on.
juice wrote:Apple margins vs iClone margins: the iClones use off-the-shelf components, bought in bulk (inc. Android): Apple uses a custom OS, built on custom hardware, to higher build/quality standards. I'd therefore expect Apple to have much higher design/production costs, even before you throw in the infamous Apple tax on top.
The "higher build quality" thing is debatable. What isn't debatable is that Apple have a vast amount more purchasing clout than the majority of clone maufacturers for the parts the don't produce "in house". They already have design teams worthy of the name, and so on. Leverage what you have. The clone manufacturers have to largely farm everything out to third parties. I can see Apple having lower overall costs than anyone else, and thus higher margins at the same pricepoint. I'll say it again. I really don't think you'll see anyone significantly undercutting the iPad without compromising usability and build quality.
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Re: iPad

Post by juice »

tufty wrote:
juice wrote:Apple hardware massively expensive as compared to PC clones: iPad: £439. iClone: £80 inc. delivery.
Compare like for like, man. That's like comparing a Mac Pro to a 250 quid supermarket special.
That's exactly the point: remember, I'm only talking about the low-end of the market. I view the iClones in the same way as I see the no-name MP3 players in Asda - right next to the iPods, priced at a fraction of the cost and offering the same core functionality: they play music.

They may not offer the same service surround, build quality or features as the real thing, but they're generally good enough for at least two key "casual" markets: parents buying things for their kids and non-tekkies who don't understand or care about the differences: an iClone will get them access to web-browsing and IM. And in the same way as Nintendo is nervously watching Apple's encroachment into DS territory, I'd also expect Apple to be monitoring the evolution of the Android tablet.

Personally, I currently own iPod technology because of the build quality, battery life and service surround but I probably won't buy an iPad: the features don't justify the price. I may well pick up a 2nd or 3rd gen Android tablet however, running 2.0 and with features such as access to the app store...

In any case, this is the iPad thread, not the Android tablet thread, so I'll bow out gracefully here. Time will tell what happpens to the market; it always does!
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Re: iPad

Post by RiK »

juice wrote:they're generally good enough for at least two key "casual" markets: parents buying things for their kids
Who'll then hate them forever...
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Re: iPad

Post by Deckard »

Funny I always remember my parents buying me a Radofin games console rather than a VCS as a kid - I am still scarred :(
Image You thought the VCS joysticks were bad...
Now with a new Mac Mini Pro so dont judge me !
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Re: iPad

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I got cheap market knockoff rather than a bona fide TCR for one xmas

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:cry:

Don't underestimate kid's brand savvyness :)
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Re: iPad

Post by VNVObit »

Deckard wrote:Funny I always remember my parents buying me a Radofin games console rather than a VCS as a kid - I am still scarred :(
Image You thought the VCS joysticks were bad...
that looks a bit upmarket compared to the grandstand compendium thing I had.

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Re: iPad

Post by Misfit »

VNVObit wrote: Children know all too well these days
They certainly do.

I overheard my 6 year old explaining the iPad to her friends and saying she was probably the first 6 year old in the UK to have played with one...

I hid.

She wants my iPhone 3GS when I upgrade as she realises the 3G she acquired canbe a bit slow!
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Re: iPad

Post by VNVObit »

Misfit wrote:
VNVObit wrote: Children know all too well these days
They certainly do.

I overheard my 6 year old explaining the iPad to her friends and saying she was probably the first 6 year old in the UK to have played with one...

I hid.

She wants my iPhone 3GS when I upgrade as she realises the 3G she acquired canbe a bit slow!
Couldn't persuade her to make do with the archos tablet I suppose ;)
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Re: iPad

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VNVObit wrote: Couldn't persuade her to make do with the archos tablet I suppose ;)
Damn those pesky kids!

The two year old does watch dinosaur king on it. So it has it's uses.
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Re: iPad

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Misfit wrote:
VNVObit wrote: Couldn't persuade her to make do with the archos tablet I suppose ;)
Damn those pesky kids!

The two year old does watch dinosaur king on it. So it has it's uses.
use my archos 704 as travelling entertainment (thank you get_iplayer)
scooby doo and pink panther are my 3 year old's favourite on the ipad while my 9 year old is mad about peggle and bugging me about iblast moki HD

picked up a couple of note taking apps (whitenote as recommended by RIK, notably, penultimate) which I am going to try out

also picked up mind node (mind mapping software) which is excellent and files can be emailed to transfer onto the desktop (several formats including freemind, OPML and their desktop version) £3.49 excellent value for a lovely little app
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Re: iPad

Post by Misfit »

Just got the official apple case.

I like how thin it is, but pretty sold on using the silicone skin at home and them slipping it into my neoprene thing when/if I travel with it.

Anybody want it?

It's currently on 3 to 4 week availability on the Apple site.

£30 and you can have it tomorrow...
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Re: iPad

Post by Misfit »

Misfit wrote:Just got the official apple case.

I like how thin it is, but pretty sold on using the silicone skin at home and them slipping it into my neoprene thing when/if I travel with it.

Anybody want it?

It's currently on 3 to 4 week availability on the Apple site.

£30 and you can have it tomorrow...
Sold in under two hours on eBay at £50 buy it now!
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Re: iPad

Post by flookster »

£50?! I bought one in the Apple store in town for £30 the other day - they had loads of them. Just had a look at ebay prices - crazy.
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Re: iPad

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flookster wrote:£50?! I bought one in the Apple store in town for £30 the other day - they had loads of them. Just had a look at ebay prices - crazy.
Many people are too lazy to go into shops and the web says 3 to 4 weeks for one.
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Re: iPad

Post by flookster »

Misfit wrote:Many people are too lazy to go into shops and the web says 3 to 4 weeks for one.
Yeah - I guess Apple stores are not easily reachable for many too. Nice profit you got there though :)
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