Zero-Grazing Farming

[disciple]

- too much sugar is bad for you

== obesity.

[zip accident]

Whatever population of whatever race ( I mean human or not ) is NOT designed to grow indefinitely, it has to reach a
"balancing point" where "things work well", even if you could increase the resources there's still a limit, one limit could
be the capacity of people the planet can contain.

There is no design. No plan.

There is a limit yes, but there is no design to stop people breeding when you reach it. Or maybe there is. The population of Britain is not growing, hasn't since the baby boom after WW2. I suspect this is also true of most of Western Europe, though I don't know the figures prove it, I even suspect that it's true of North America, if you exclude immigration.

Eventually when things will go "too bad" birth control will be something no one will be able to ignore it will become a
"phisical necessity" not any more a moral issue or "crap" like that is simply could get something one can't live without.

Yeah, might just happen, if populations keep growing, but it also might not.

There's always the "density factor" even if you'd have lot to feed everyone you don't want to live in a super-crowded
planet, not all the people wants to get used to that, "food" is not just everthing you need some "space" too.

You'd be surprised how little space people can get by with if they absolutely have to.

War destruction and such ? .. probably at some point becomes unavoidable .. and probably "when things go so bad" you
can't even blame anyone for doing it .. "it just happens as it has to happen" ..

It's an option.

Social tension and trigger elements are consequences of various things .. when people becomes maybe "even too mad
about religions" or political issues or such .. those are signs of underlying "tensions" that could have much deeper and
larger roots than what we see.

Maybe, maybe not. We had some mad religious persecution here in the Tudor times, and the population then was tiny in todays terms.

The more "imbalance" is created .. the more "demand" of everything is created the more "pressure" is put on people and
things .. some tragic results are completely unavoidable .. and simply the natural unavoidable consequence and results
of things set in motion long ago and quite possibly in quite some cases with even a simple demonstration of "look, you
do that, in X years time ( X not even that big ) 'exponential shit is going to happen' ".

Quite some of the "most popular/attractive living sytem" are not designed or meant to work "for a lot of people", actually
they are meant to work ONLY if not many are into them you can only hope to manage to be "one of the few not many" but
you can never spread or increase the size of those systems, they are not expandable, they would need infinite resources
to be expanded generating an even increasing demand.

Bounds are always pushed and stretched .. but ultimately they collapse .. even if nobody is going to start an eugenics is
not necessary, it will happen by its own the only thing that is needed is time .. time will eventually level up things .. it's math
nobody can escape from it .. no matter how you look at it, math holds.

Oh yes, maths will win. It's a strange thing, but apparently, I was told by a bunch of pacifists when I was a kid (so take it with a considerable pinch of salt), it's poverty that makes people breed like mad, people who are well off don't do it.

As long as resources meet demand "everyone is happy" .. when this does not happen any more .. shit happens .. and
when this can't be sorted out any more in any way no matter what .. 'super shit happens'.

Eta Carinae;
That is a long way away, luckily, but when that one goes, it will probably be pretty spectacular. On a scale where that's a ten, we won't be as much as a one, even if we wipe ourselves out completely and take all life on Earth with us, which we probably can't.

[goldfish]

It's a sad fact that farming in this country has been marginalised over the last 20 years or longer, and this is one of the results of that neglect.

I think it goes back further than this, personally (pretty much since the second world war, farming has been put in an invidious position around maximising production, frequently at the cost of quality and safety), but otherwise I've loved your contributions to this debate.

Farmers produce what their customers demand - all the hand-wringing in the world won't compensate for the fact that most of us, on this forum as everywhere else, buy cheap food. From curries to kebabs to supermarket ready-meals, all of which are as far removed from quality food (and husbandry to match) as it's possible to get.

Simon

[Darkflame]

Eventually when things will go "too bad" birth control will be something no one will be able to ignore it will become a
"phisical necessity" not any more a moral issue or "crap" like that is simply could get something one can't live without.

Indeed.
And its a real shame its considered almost dirty to talk about, seeing as the earlier we admit there's too many of us, the nicer and less draconian restrictions will have to be. Preferably nothing but education.
At the moment, we are sadly running the other way. Population increase might be down, but its despite of efforts by governments not because of it. They are typically so short-sited as to think births are a good solution to pension shortfalls.

Of course, the other larger issue is our whole economy is based on growth. If there isn't growth its a bad thing.
We need to start looking at being able to be all healthy and comfortable at a stable or even declining level of production and resource use.

[gumboot]

Farmers produce what their customers demand - all the hand-wringing in the world won't compensate for the fact that most of us, on this forum as everywhere else, buy cheap food. From curries to kebabs to supermarket ready-meals, all of which are as far removed from quality food (and husbandry to match) as it's possible to get.

Just like sweatshop sneakers and readymade-landfill disposable plastic crap. In fact, just like everything we wish didn't exist but does. They make it because people buy it. All the way from battery eggs to nigerian scams to kiddyporn.

Up until earlier today ("today" being a 40-something hour period of contiguous non-sleep) I would have said that middle-class China is far more wasteful than any-class westerners... but for two factors: one is that when they're not eating at restaurants you do see leftovers appearing from one day to the next, the other is that as I was walking to a bus stop in Beijing I saw a not-at-all-poor-looking man rifling through the kitchen waste bins picking all the identifiable bits out of discarded restaurant leftovers (which are copious in China) and separating them into different bags. I'm trying very hard to not think about what would happen next, but you obviously don't sort things that carefully without some kind of use in mind for what you're collecting, so it's obviously not being left to waste.

And they don't eat much meat, anyway. And they used to feed their pigs human poo, too.


Even so, China a heck of a lot to learn about not destroying the environment. It's not just about needing to burn fossil fuels to power the development and progression out of third-world status. The culture is wrong and needs fixing.

[betamax]

Even so, China a heck of a lot to learn about not destroying the environment. It's not just about needing to burn fossil fuels to power the development and progression out of third-world status. The culture is wrong and needs fixing.

One of the tasks Hercules doesn't like to talk about was the one where he was asked to change China's mind about something they've done for the last umpteen generations.