Ads that get right on your tits

[gilesgoat]

.. a good thing about cash .. is that you can't spend more than what you carry ..

[Orava]

.. a good thing about cash .. is that you can't spend more than what you carry ..

And in places like Zimbabwe what you buy probably weighs less the money you carried.

[Orava]

Seriously, am I being overly paranoid here or is this just a really bloody stupid idea? Someone else must have raised thsi already, surely?
I must have missed some obvious security flaw. I must have. I just don't see any in the adverts...

Maximum transaction value of £15. Will occasionally ask for PIN number if transactions especially if you don't match your general shopping pattern.
Not that they want you to know that. it's a big secret. No information anywhere you can't even google it

That is a great idea. A way of paying that labels you as a thief in front of shop staff.

[gumboot]

2. I still don't like the idea of people being able to remove money from a card without authorisation.
If the terminals have limited power so you HAVE to remove your card from your wallet and put it nearby (like how an oyster card works I believe?), fine. But how long before someone finds a way of boosting the reader's strength and starts 'distance-debiting' directly from your bank account?

Something that will slow down signal boosted attacks is the transmission strength of the card. You would need to have a more sensitive and highly selective receiver. This isn't necessarily difficult, but in the short term what is more likely is contactless pickpocketing, where you're scanned by somebody brushing past you using more conventional technologies.

You could also arrange a relay system where somebody holds a scanner near your card and somebody else scans a proxy card at the till, and communications are sent back and forth between your reader and your proxy exchanging all the necessary details. There's a good chance your mark is a regular at the shop where you're running this scam, so a fairly low chance that you'll need their pin.

Even then, your pin is no security at all. It's really not feasible to hide it in most places. If somebody really wants to see it then they will.


And what are the "necessary details", anyway? Are these cards getting enough power that they can do serious challenge-response authentication, or are they just broadcasting the same bank account number every time?

but what about a dodgy merchant account scanning crowds of people walking past a shopfront on a busy street and debiting up to the maximum amount from everyone who goes past?

Also not a direct risk, because all those transactions will be associated with that vendor. The bank knows where they live and will sort them out once it realises what's going on. If it's anything like a credit card the vendor probably doesn't get its money for months after the transaction while the bank waits to see if there's a complaint.

That's not to say that a rogue staff member couldn't ring transactions up as card payments and then pocket the cash and make up the balance from a passer-by. Just that if they do it too much then their employer will get in trouble, and if they're logging these transactions under their own name then they'll get caught.

Ah, I'm sure it's all fine and I should just stick my head back in the sand and not worry about it.

Good luck with that. I used to think that because chip and pin could easily be made secure[*] (at least so long as you never lost your card) that it would be made secure; because what kind of fucking moron would fail to take such simple measures when handling others' money? Well when they started sending out those pocket card readers for online transactions I learnt a little more about it, and it turned out that those fucking morons are the ones designing the systems to handle our money. I hate to think how alarming I would find it to realise how insecure the rest of their work is.

[*] at least secure against all the obvious attacks I could think of, which I consider the bare minimum because it's not my job to think about such things.

[Ollie]

That is a great idea. A way of paying that labels you as a thief in front of shop staff.

They've always done that though. Years ago, before chip-and-pin, I remember having to talk to VISA on the phone to confirm that I was really me because my card had been flagged due to my having used it to make an unusually large purchase. (Stupidly it wasn't the large purchase that I had to confirm, but a smaller, more usual purchase I made a day or two later.)

[gumboot]

That is a great idea. A way of paying that labels you as a thief in front of shop staff.

They've always done that though. Years ago, before chip-and-pin, I remember having to talk to VISA on the phone to confirm that I was really me because my card had been flagged due to my having used it to make an unusually large purchase. (Stupidly it wasn't the large purchase that I had to confirm, but a smaller, more usual purchase I made a day or two later.)

Have I told the story about this one time where I maxed out my card and paid it off again one weekend, and then hit the before-I-paid-it-off limit later in the same weekend? I called the bank to ask wtf was going on, at some point during the conversation the lady's tone went utterly weird on me and she was all sympathetic sounding and on about how it can't have been nice for me and that she's terribly sorry and all that. It wasn't until afterwards when I was looking for something to blow my nose on that I realised that I'd been sniffling at her all that time because I had a cold (I mean, I did know I had a cold, I just didn't realise she thought I was crying).

Who the fuck cries when their card gets declined?

So anyway, it turned out that they count all the withdrawls in real time but defer the deposits until Monday.

[gilesgoat]

That is a great idea. A way of paying that labels you as a thief in front of shop staff.

They've always done that though. Years ago, before chip-and-pin, I remember having to talk to VISA on the phone to confirm that I was really me because my card had been flagged due to my having used it to make an unusually large purchase. (Stupidly it wasn't the large purchase that I had to confirm, but a smaller, more usual purchase I made a day or two later.)

Have I told the story about this one time where I maxed out my card and paid it off again one weekend, and then hit the before-I-paid-it-off limit later in the same weekend? I called the bank to ask wtf was going on, at some point during the conversation the lady's tone went utterly weird on me and she was all sympathetic sounding and on about how it can't have been nice for me and that she's terribly sorry and all that. It wasn't until afterwards when I was looking for something to blow my nose on that I realised that I'd been sniffling at her all that time because I had a cold (I mean, I did know I had a cold, I just didn't realise she thought I was crying).

Who the fuck cries when their card gets declined?

So anyway, it turned out that they count all the withdrawls in real time but defer the deposits until Monday.

There can be worse than that.

I have a DEBIT card NOT a credit one, you always think that "you can't spend more than that and that's it".

Turns out "you could be wrong without knowing" time ago I reached the end of the month with a certain sum, some
payments were due "in some days" I tought some money was already in but there been a delay I did not know
and the money came in a few days later.

I had to pay a dentist that again a strange situation ( I tought it wanted to be paid when the job was done instead he
wanted 'a piece' immediatly and the next after - must have misunderstood, mah .. ) he asked me for quite a bit on the spot.

I was convinced the money was there as I tought "well yes the payment should be in", so I use my debit card, all goes ok
so "no problem" .. so I think ..

Two days later a letter from the bank came in .. where they tell me they AUTOMATICALLY put me in an "unplanned
overdraft scheme" .. it turns out that "the transfer was done but the money was in there YET ( those famous days ) " so
I went into an "unplanned overdraft" for .. .. 12 quids ..

12 quids .. that turned out been paid ( and so sorted ) 4 days later ( when the money arrived ) ..

I never heard/did not know that the bank was going to put me automatically into an "unplanned overdraft scheme" for
a debit card .. note that my overdraft was 12 quids for 4 days "not a huge thing" you'd think about.

However .. turns out that "not a huge thing" costed me the fantastic sum of 85 POUNDS ! Something like "50 pounds on
the spot" because they put me on that scheme plus something ridiculous like 8 pounds a day for each day plus other
expenses ..

And the weird thing is .. it did not end there the next month .. no .. because they went to charge me for those 85 pounds
not the next month but 3 months after that ..

All that because I was convinced some money was in when it wasn't and I never heard ( maybe I should have read
the tiny lines ) of an "automatically set unplanned overdraft scheme" for a debit card.

The funny side continues, I think last month I received a letter from the bank saying that "they have some new policies"
( and prices - higher - ) and that from now "you are allowed to have an unplanned overdraft up to 30 pounds for a week
without entering into charges" .. ( but over 30 and you are in deep shit ) .

Of course this happens AFTER this happens to me and they got me 85 quids.

It also turns out that if I DO NOT want to be included in that "unplanned overdraft scheme" then I should explicitely tell
it to them and/or probably sign something for it because otherwise is automatically applied "for your convenience" or such.

Next time I'll be down to bank to sort out some things I'll ask them to remove me from that, I wonder if removing me
from that in some way is going to cost me more, I bet there's some trick in that too.

Tons of MA DIO &$*@&%@($*% all over the place, you can well see now I count pennies when I buy things.

I am still convinced that the dentist told me one thing first and then the receptionist another one later.

[Ollie]

So anyway, it turned out that they count all the withdrawals in real time but defer the deposits until Monday.

Yeah, I discovered on one occasion that even when a transaction is cancelled (in my case due to the wrong amount having been entered by the shop), it still counts towards your limit for a couple of days. i.e., the payment goes onto your account immediately, the cancellation takes a couple of days. So I was in the ridiculous situation of having the payment accepted, then immediately cancelled, then not being able to re-do the payment with a smaller amount.

[GigerPunk]

Two days later a letter from the bank came in .. where they tell me they AUTOMATICALLY put me in an "unplanned
overdraft scheme" .. it turns out that "the transfer was done but the money was in there YET ( those famous days ) " so
I went into an "unplanned overdraft" for .. .. 12 quids ..

12 quids .. that turned out been paid ( and so sorted ) 4 days later ( when the money arrived ) ..

I never heard/did not know that the bank was going to put me automatically into an "unplanned overdraft scheme" for
a debit card .. note that my overdraft was 12 quids for 4 days "not a huge thing" you'd think about.

However .. turns out that "not a huge thing" costed me the fantastic sum of 85 POUNDS ! Something like "50 pounds on
the spot" because they put me on that scheme plus something ridiculous like 8 pounds a day for each day plus other
expenses..

I feel your pain on this one, although I had quite the opposite once - The bank once sent me a letter to say they weren't going to pay a direct debit for my car insurance that month (£18 or so (was quite a while ago)) because it would take me over my overdraft limit.
They then charged me £25 for the letter telling me this. This £25 they decided they would be able to remove from my account, regardless of it then taking me over my limit.
Then charged me something like 40 or 50 quid for having the gall to go over my overdraft limit. And were perfectly able to deduct that from my account as well.
And then I still had to pay my car insurance for that month (iirc after speaking to someone at the insurance company I had to send them a postal order for the amount in question. Paid for P/O, sent it to the insurance company, who then sent it back a month or so later saying that didn't accept them and didn't know why I'd sent it to them as I had no policy with them. For some reason, they couldn't/wouldn't grasp the idea that I wouldn't have gone out and paid for a postal order if I hadn't been told by them to do so (I'd have just written a cheque).
Consequently, for about 2 months I was unwittingly driving around without any car insurance due to bank and insurance company being utter fscking bar-stewards. (And my own financial incompetance, admittedly. (but mainly them))


I seem to have derailed the thread from annoying adverts to just annoying banks/companies, sorry.
Have a few to try and make up for it -
the WKD wankers,
the Mark-heap-voiced fox advertising Old Speckled Hen on dave all the sodding time,
any of the "brand power" adverts,
that one where that cockney geezer (someone famous in football? I have no clue) chucks a bloke a red pepper and gives him a recipe for it involving pasta (that looks horrible) and then they all walk off without paying for the pepper
Any of the hair product ads but especially the one where everyone had removable heads.
And I know badly-dubbed ones have been mentioned already, but there's one I saw recently that looked obviously American which they've dubbed (badly, of course) with an American accent?!?!?
That one just boggles my mind as to why they felt the need (unless it was originally in Spanish/Mexican, but still, if you're going to dub it badly for the UK, why not at least use a UK voice?)
Bah, I've enraged myself further now, I'm off for a smoke.
/Mmmm, Danone!
/rage

[Yak]

How can a letter actually cost £25? I mean is it printed on special super expensive paper and hand delivered by liveried delivery people in a posh carriage? It seems to me such letters arrive on similar stationery and in a similar manner to things like bank statements, which don't cost anywhere near £25.

So where does that figure come from, or is it just an arbitrary amount they decide they are going to rip you off for?

Not to be OT: the latest McDonalds ad is just as disingenuous as the last one - remember where they showed kids planting *flowers* in the *shape* of a cow rather than imply anything as crass as them actually killing real cows for beefburgers? In the new one they spend a huge amount of time waffling on about the weather, showing nothing when they mention the burgers, then showing a pile of potatoes when they mention the fries, and then they DO show some cows - but only while mentioning the milk for their milkshakes. At no stage, it seems, do they want anyone to actually associate their burgers with actual living creatures.

[gilesgoat]

What about all this "SUPER ULTRA PUSHED MEXICAN MANIA ??"

Now don't tell me wrong "nothing againist Mexican culture/food/etc. .. " .. if only it was REAL and there were real mexican
people trying to sell me their own stuff rather than a "megacorp" trying to make pass some heavvily industrially made
food ( that probably has nothing of few to do with what really is eaten in Mexico ) as "original mexican traditional".

But apart from that the thing is "who ever gave a toss - SO MUCH - about burritos/fajitas/salsa ( always filled with
Xanatax gum, guar, addensants and crap ) tortillas ?" that looks like "the whole world CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT THEM".

Everywhere I turn around, even here in Wales, it looks like "everyone HAS TO BUY some burrito/chilli/fajita/wrapper".

I think it reaches "the top of the absurd" with the "iWrap" from KFC ..

It seems to me "WE ARE SUPER ULTRA DESPERATE BEYOND ANY MEASURE TRYING TO SELL THAT STUFF !!".

Reminds me of that time also there was all that "big thing" about "American Bagels" in offer all around.

Now it happens I really like bagels so I say "nevermind the ads, I like bagels, let's get some of those".

They were maybe the SHITTEST bagels I ever had, nothing wrong about bagels but those "American bagels on sale"
where really CRAP.

No wonders they were on sale, no wonders they were advertising them so much.

But please .. I don't think in Mexico ( I well HOPE NOT ) people are going to make all that fuss and crap any time
they eat a tortilla/burrito ( that is not mexican at all ) and such.

Dance and swings and weird moves, erotism and sex in a tortilla !

[GigerPunk]

What about all this "SUPER ULTRA PUSHED MEXICAN MANIA ??"

Now don't tell me wrong "nothing againist Mexican culture/food/etc. .. " .. if only it was REAL and there were real mexican people trying to sell me their own stuff rather than a "megacorp" trying to make pass some heavvily industrially made food ( that probably has nothing of few to do with what really is eaten in Mexico ) as "original mexican traditional".

But apart from that the thing is "who ever gave a toss - SO MUCH - about burritos/fajitas/salsa ( always filled with
Xanatax gum, guar, addensants and crap ) tortillas ?" that looks like "the whole world CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT THEM".

Everywhere I turn around, even here in Wales, it looks like "everyone HAS TO BUY some burrito/chilli/fajita/wrapper".

I think it reaches "the top of the absurd" with the "iWrap" from KFC ..

It seems to me "WE ARE SUPER ULTRA DESPERATE BEYOND ANY MEASURE TRYING TO SELL THAT STUFF !!".

Reminds me of that time also there was all that "big thing" about "American Bagels" in offer all around.

Now it happens I really like bagels so I say "nevermind the ads, I like bagels, let's get some of those".

Now, I happen to love Fajitas and am not a fan of bagels.
No idea how authentic fajitas are but I had them when on holiday in mexico many (many) moons ago, so they DO eat them there. Or sell them to tourists at least.
Won't touch a kfc one though. I have chickens so that's the last place I'm going to set foot. I have some principles.
But fajitas? Yum. Also helps that they're on e of the few things I can make competantly, thus occasionally giving the wife a break. (It's not my fault she's a much better cook)

As for crap ads, if there's an advert I don't like, I try my best to make as point to not buy that product as a consequence - it's the only way they'll learn, by voting with your money. Buy something if you like it (or the adverts), don't if you don't, your money's the only language businesses understand. Of course, going by the amount of adverts we all detest, looks like we'll all just be trying to live on wine gums.

The fajita wrap adverts ARE hateful though. So I'm avoiding Old el Paso stuff at present.

[WiredWorm]

Not to be OT: the latest McDonalds ad is just as disingenuous as the last one - remember where they showed kids planting *flowers* in the *shape* of a cow rather than imply anything as crass as them actually killing real cows for beefburgers? In the new one they spend a huge amount of time waffling on about the weather, showing nothing when they mention the burgers, then showing a pile of potatoes when they mention the fries, and then they DO show some cows - but only while mentioning the milk for their milkshakes. At no stage, it seems, do they want anyone to actually associate their burgers with actual living creatures.

Couldn't agree more.

And Morrisons are also on my list for the same reason. Bragging to the kids about how none of their meat flies anywhere and how they employ 'in store' butchers, whilst totally managing to avoid mentioning that meat comes from dead animals.

Nnnngggg....

[betamax]

Not to be OT: the latest McDonalds ad is just as disingenuous as the last one - remember where they showed kids planting *flowers* in the *shape* of a cow rather than imply anything as crass as them actually killing real cows for beefburgers? In the new one they spend a huge amount of time waffling on about the weather, showing nothing when they mention the burgers, then showing a pile of potatoes when they mention the fries, and then they DO show some cows - but only while mentioning the milk for their milkshakes. At no stage, it seems, do they want anyone to actually associate their burgers with actual living creatures.

Couldn't agree more.

And Morrisons are also on my list for the same reason. Bragging to the kids about how none of their meat flies anywhere and how they employ 'in store' butchers, whilst totally managing to avoid mentioning that meat comes from dead animals.

Nnnngggg....

Not to be a corpse at your barbeque but it's really not up to advertisers to educate people about where their food comes from. Anyone who cares will look for themselves and educate their own children accordingly. As long as they arent telling direct and obvious lies, they are covered.

The advertisers only role is to spin you some half-arsed reheated fever dream of their product to distract you from the grinding dullness and 100% redundancy of what they want you to buy. Nowadays they like to throw the greenwash about a lot more of course.

[gumboot]

How about this one? I once made a small transaction, a small transaction, and then forgot that I was close to the limit and made a big transaction. The last one should (hah, "should"!) have cost me NZ$15 for going into overdraft, but the bank thought better of that and reordered them to be big transaction (straight into overdraft, $15) then small transaction (transaction while in overdraft, $15) then small transaction (transaction while in overdraft, $15). Banks run a kind of pinball scoring mechanism, I think. It must be an exciting job.

Next time I'll be down to bank to sort out some things I'll ask them to remove me from that, I wonder if removing me
from that in some way is going to cost me more, I bet there's some trick in that too.

Yes, if you remove yourself from that service then they'll probably charge you the full penalty fee as soon as you cross zero instead.

How can a letter actually cost £25? I mean is it printed on special super expensive paper and hand delivered by liveried delivery people in a posh carriage? It seems to me such letters arrive on similar stationery and in a similar manner to things like bank statements, which don't cost anywhere near £25.

I think you could make good money delivering letters like that. Like a strip-o-gram, but a posh-o-gram/Austen-o-gram instead.

So where does that figure come from, or is it just an arbitrary amount they decide they are going to rip you off for?

It used to be that it was clearly understood to be precisely what you say, and so illegal (unfair contracts), and you could claim your money back. There was all sorts of guidance on the matter, including form letters and everything... MoneySavingExpert.com and all that. Then somebody toothless (was it Trading Standards?) managed to lose a court case, and they refused to get back on their horse and keep fighting; so it kind of made it look legal again. MSE says it's still worth a go, though.


ObTITS: Was I dreaming or did I see an Actimel advert recently saying "well, never mind our pseudoscientific bullshit, then -- it tastes nice!"?