RMD: ADSL router + 802.11n + gigabit LAN

[Stone]

At the moment I have a gigabit switch in my TV cabinet which connects my Synology NAS, TV, Xbox 360 and Freesat+ box to each other. A single cable links them to the Internets through my existing 802.11b/g ADSL router on an 8Mb pipe. Wireless clients (a couple of laptops and mobile phones) can see the internet and interact (slowly) with the LAN, the bottleneck being the wireless connection.

As some of my neighbours have their own WLANs running, I have a DECT phone and there's a paid BT hotspot nearby, there's enough interference that I can't get a wifi signal in about half the house, including the front bedroom (which is the most irritating). There's some cat5 slung around the house but none extends upstairs.

I also have a desktop PC upstairs that's currently isolated unless I run a network cable downstairs. Its location can get enough signal for wifi access to the internet, but the wireless link's lack of bandwidth makes it a bit crap for any serious data-shuffling.

I'd like to upgrade to 802.11n to hopefully get some more range and noise-immunity. However with most routers I've found the theoretical 600Mb/s of 802.11n is only achievable between wireless clients - for LAN access you only get 10/100 ports, so the bottleneck is shifted to the wired side and you can only get 100Mb/s access to the wired network.

So, are there any decent ADSL modem/routers with 802.11n and an integrated gigabit switch? If so I could just drop it in to replace my current modem and plug a £9 usb adapter into the upstairs PC to get much better network speeds that I currently manage. The rest of the existing stuff can all manage 802.11g at best, so I'm guessing that restricts me to 2.4GHz 802.11n only (so a single radio is fine). Lastly, I'd prefer to spend less than £100.

Is it possible or do I need a separate modem and 802.11n gateway?

Stone

[Baggypants]

what, you mean like this?
http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalo ... 8wIwADgA#p

[Stone]

Erm, yes, forgot to mention it sits behind my centre speaker so can't sit vertically. I did see that one before but one of the reviews said the wifi stopped working when it was horizontal...

There isn't much space left in the cabinet that isn't taken up by books, I'll take some pics later. If it can't go on top I'll struggle to fit it anywhere! Also just realised this should probably be in Ooh Shiny. Whoops

Stone

[Stone]

Here's the cabinet. (click for bigger)


Above the telly, left is my 360, charging stand for two controller batteries and my Multi-Mega. Right is my Freesat+ box (Panasonic DMR-XS350) and TEST PS2 above it. My amp is lower-left and the NAS is next to it, hidden behind the speaker. My current ADSL modem / router lurks behind the centre speaker about to be pounced upon by the giant spider. The upper-right shelf with the PS2 controller and Klein bottle is waiting to have a stack of books tidied into it so is out-of-bounds!

I could clear a gap next to the PS2 of about 135x250x140mm but that doesn't give much to work with - the one you linked to might squeeze in but you wouldn't be able to plug any cables in!

Behind the cabinet are a phone socket and two Cat5 ports installed by the previous owners - one leads to the other side of the room (where my sofa is) and the other to a cupboard under the boiler. There is another phone socket in the room near a second cat5 port leading to the same cupboard, but I think one of the cables may be dodgy - with either one an end-to-end link from living room to cupboard seems to work, but joining the two ports in the cupboard doesn't link the two ports in the living room, with either straight or crossed cable. I don't have a cable tester so that's me fresh out of ideas I can't put a switch in the cupboard because it has no power socket; I don't really want to mess with PoE either.

I just wanted it to be simple If I could make a 3" patch cord between the two cupboard ports I could stick the router somewhere sensible, but I'm not sure if the in-wall cables even support gigabit!

Stone

[hairy_pete]

I've recently extended my DSL subscription another two years, and that got me a Fritz!Box 7390 almost for free (just €30 over the free 7320).

This one has it all - ADSL2+ router, 11n wireless with hidden aerials, integrated DECT base station for wireless home phones, ISDN.S0 bus output, analog phone jacks, answering machine, fax receiver, four gigabit LAN ports, UPnP and NAS server, a USB host port for storage, printers and even fallback to UMTS via USB surfstick if DSL fails - and dozens of other features.

I've installed the 7200 and 7300 series Fritz!Boxen in several households, and they've been flawless everywhere. Recommend I do! (Not sure if there's a separate UK model though.)

[Stone]

Cheapest I've found that is £192, without your subsidised deals (and pushed up by all the features I don't need or already have). Also 1994 called, they want their product design back

The Fritz!Box does support VDSL though - based only on a rapid Google, is this what I need after BT reach my road and lay FTTC? Doesn't make much sense to me to be buying new kit if I'm going to have to upgrade it again (or add an external modem) within the year...

Stone

[Firefox]

I have no recommendations to make but thoroughly enjoyed reading about your setup.

[Stone]

You should see the spaghetti round the back!

I actually had to make a Visio diagram so my other half could learn how to turn the telly on..!

Stone

[Baggypants]

Erm, yes, forgot to mention it sits behind my centre speaker so can't sit vertically. I did see that one before but one of the reviews said the wifi stopped working when it was horizontal...

There isn't much space left in the cabinet that isn't taken up by books, I'll take some pics later. If it can't go on top I'll struggle to fit it anywhere! Also just realised this should probably be in Ooh Shiny. Whoops

Stone

parp

[Dio]

I'd like to upgrade to 802.11n to hopefully get some more range and noise-immunity. However with most routers I've found the theoretical 600Mb/s of 802.11n is only achievable between wireless clients - for LAN access you only get 10/100 ports, so the bottleneck is shifted to the wired side and you can only get 100Mb/s access to the wired network.

Given the environment you've discussed, I think it's unlikely the wired network will ever be your bottleneck unless you're sat next to the router - unless you move to the 5GHz band.

Personally, I think if you're in a remotely crowded wireless environment (i.e. the whole of the UK) using dual-channel n in the 2.4GHZ band is a bit antisocial, since you're trying to use more than half the available bandwidth. But that's hardly your fault for them allowing a crappy specification.

If you've got range issues caused by structures, though, the 5GHz band might make things worse. And the good APs for that aren't cheap.

I've had no trouble running gigabit over the standard Cat 5 I pulled through the house when we moved in 8 years ago, by the way, so it's worth giving a try.

[hairy_pete]

Cheapest I've found that is £192, without your subsidised deals (and pushed up by all the features I don't need or already have). Also 1994 called, they want their product design back

Yes, their package design indeed has been that same brightly colored late eighties style ever since they started making stuff (they started with ISDN cards on ISA bus). Everyone's making jokes on this, but they stick to it. Once you're past that, you'll see their products are really fine.

The international model 7390 goes for 249 € here in Germany, so your UK price sounds about right.

Unfortunately the lesser featured 7320 doesn't seem to be available in retail at all - this one would be down two GigE LAN ports, no ISDN bus, and just one RJ11 for wired analog phones.

[gumboot]

I've been learning various techniques (and stress positions) for getting cable into awkward places, in preference to buying more boxes and dongles and wall warts.

What are your walls made of, and what are your upstairs floors covered with?

Also, it hasn't come up for me, yet, but it looks like a lot of wireless access points (and presumably other equipment) come with PoE injectors for free. Sounds to me like it should "just work".

[Stone]

Personally, I think if you're in a remotely crowded wireless environment (i.e. the whole of the UK) using dual-channel n in the 2.4GHZ band is a bit antisocial, since you're trying to use more than half the available bandwidth. But that's hardly your fault for them allowing a crappy specification.

You're right, I didn't realise how much the speed drops off with distance. If it only goes flat out at 1m, calling it 600Mb/s is a bit of a con really I'm not terribly bothered about my neighbours, if their shitty children can scream, bang on the walls and 'play' the piano at midnight I'm sure they can cope with a bit of RF!

I've had no trouble running gigabit over the standard Cat 5 I pulled through the house when we moved in 8 years ago, by the way, so it's worth giving a try.

Good to know, but like I said I only have three runs, all downstairs.

1) Behind telly cabinet to behind sofa (I don't need this one)
2) Behind telly cabinet to hallway cupboard
3) Hallway cupboard to behind desk
The hallway cupboard has a triple cat5 socket and about 10m of bare cable hanging out of the unused one so I could potentially thread that somewhere else.

There are phone jacks at all three endpoints and power behind the telly cabinet and the desk. The hallway cupboard is immediately below my boiler; while I might be able to get the unused cable into the airing cupboard above, there's no power accessible in there either so there wouldn't be much point. I could potentially go through the airing cupboard all the way up into the loft and then drop into a bedroom from there? I do own a fish tape.

I considered moving the modem/router onto the desk and using the phone socket there. Ethernet would go into the wall and come out in the hallway cupboard, and I could loop it through to the TV cabinet there (or use PoE and put a switch in the cupboard if I did route the spare cable upstairs). I think I've got a PoE injector somewhere but still need the other end!

However: with the router plugged into the port behind the telly cabinet, plugging a laptop into the hallway cupboard lets it see the Internet. Likewise, plugging the router into the behind-desk port and plugging the laptop into the matching port in the cupboard works. However having the router at the tv port, laptop at desk port and the two ports linked by a patch cable at the cupboard end, doesn't work! You can see why I like wireless so much now Having the wifi access point on the desk would bring it about ten feet and one exterior wall closer to the front bedroom so that's probably its optimal location.

To add to the confusion FTTC is available here now and I may upgrade at some point, in which case BT's modem would need to be plugged into the master phone socket. I don't know which one that is, as all my sockets are identical I suspect the previous owner rewired them all (incorrectly) with extension sockets from B&Q - they do all work though. If the hallway cupboard phone point is the master socket then I'd probably bring mains in there somehow (probably just a fused spur) and put all the networking kit in one place.

Fun, this I'll see if I have enough dimensions written down to do a floorplan without measuring everything.

Stone
[edit: tried end-to-end link again and it worked! I must have a duff patch cable in the collection So the best solution is a 802.11n router on the desk and a short patch cable in the cupboard. Gnaaaah! ]

[Flojomojo]

I have one of these routers from Buffalo Tech, which I like, and while I think the N wireless is somewhat more robust than G, it's not that much faster. Wireless, especially in a crowded spot, can be troublesome.

I am in love with my powerline ethernet adapter. The technology used to be worse than wireless, but despite it making big strides in the past several years, still no one talks about it. I've attached my Tivo, game consoles, and OnLive microconsole (needs massive bandwidth) to one of these.

[sdetoni]

I actually had to make a Visio diagram so my other half could learn how to turn the telly on..!

Funniest thing I've heard today, then again my situation isn't much better. When my wife wants to play a music CD, she needs to press the DVD button on my amp, then place the CD in the DVD player .... but invariably she pushes the the CD button. The CD is for my X-BOX, which can also could play music in as well, but I didn't want to add more confusion over the DVD player already.