Elite on Kickstarter...

[Darkflame]

I will happily whack some money down - but kinda more because I want to support procedural tech rather then Elite specifically.

[Istar]

Oh, and while it's kind of tempting, I'll pass on this one. The base entry fee is too high and I'm not sure the game will deliver.

£1??

Do you do the Lottery? If so, you might want to stop.

[Darkflame]

I suspect that it won't actually be Elite (despite the BBC video showing Breadbin playing the Beeb version) either, it'll be Frontier - complete with boring Newtonian flight/combat model.
!

Well, the kickstarter says:

I want a game that feels more like the original “Elite” to fly

[Jamesac]

There's something a bit odd about the Elite Kickstarter, at least on my end. I can click on a link and get there no problem, but if I open Kickstarter, click on Discover Great Projects at the top, go to Game, Video Games, See More Popular Projects, Elite doesn't show up anywhere. If I didn't know it was there I'd have no way to find out. The other UK games, like Sir, You Are Being Hunted, show up, so it's not that. Is this happening to anyone else?

Maybe it's in a different category? I can't imagine why it would be, though.

James

[adam]

Cos I posted in the programmer forum so as not to seem pushy making a thread in the main forum...

Heres a link to the discussion about my kickstarter... http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=83537

Since I've started I've learnt a lot (hopefully in time but if no maybe for next time). Its real hard getting eyeballs on your game unless you have a name or loved IP.

1 - 0 to Mr B

Getting websites especially reddit (Simon Roth Maia's getting more pledges from reddit than elsewhere) and gaming website is key.

2 - 0 to Mr B

there are varying degrees of pushiness... i'd say you need to be about 3 times as pushy as you are at the moment in order to hit your target in time

i don't know if you can extend a listing once it's underway, braben has set 60 days instead of 30

the thing about reddit is that it's a user submitted links site, you can put a link to your ks up yourself, or a few hundred links, there are subreddits for different subjects, each link has a comments section where people often have discussions, people often put links to their own products or projects up, often with a comment that it's theirs, there is a kickstarter subreddit for instance, you could list your project in there and ask people what you can do to get more pledges...
lots of redditors are american, they have no problem with selling themselves, quite often the product is a bit shonky but they don't mind selling themselves anyway.

there are also gaming subreddits, disability ones, probably ones for this type of rpg, it's a bit usenetty.

if i come across as a bit frustrated it's because i think you need to be more forward about promoting this, often people put their projects up here and there's no problem with that, people are normally supportive and complimentary, i am also not a fan of the high pressure approach so i can see what you mean, but annoyance is more of a sliding scale than an either-or thing.

you can look at this ks for an example of good salesmanship imo, especially the rewards section where he tells people all about the benefits of the different rewards:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/105 ... s?ref=live

[venusian]

Whilst we're commenting on DeanoC's KS I'd like to make a couple of comments on it. I mean these in the most constructive way I can muster. I think it's a neat idea but...

The description is heavy on game mechanics and inspiration but very light on why the game is going to rock. I guess you've put up all the things that excite you as a developer but that's not the object of the exercise - you need to advertise the things that will excite people as players (i.e. buyers). It reads like a post to a dev forum asking for collaborators, not investors.

Your video doesn't help. Your demeanour gives the impression that you're describing something you kind of thought up yesterday afternoon and the continual looking away from camera at your notes makes you look shifty. Neither are conducive to parting people from their money. If you can't deliver the presentation in one go, do it in takes and edit it together?

The character renders look too static, like they've been lifted from a stock-model site; it's hard to mentally envisage them living and breathing in a game. I realise this is a catch-22 situation but putting some time/effort/money into the art prior to the KS would really help.

ISTM the best route to raising the money would through disability special interest web sites and forums BUT these people won't understand game development (although no more or less than the general population). They need to see a cool game ready to emerge, not a collection of development resources.

It's a shame because with your track record and a cool idea you ought to have a killer KS pitch.

All IMO of course.

[venusian]

Actually, I've just gone back and looked at the KS page again. It's better than I remember it being. By which I mean I still think the above is valid criticism but turn the volume down a notch or two.

[DeanoC]

Yeah unfortunately only really learn by doing. I thought I had researched the subject (doing a kickstarter) pretty well but obviously not. Thankfully I'm getting lots of helpful advice (thanks to everyone who has said what they think, its all very helpful).

Conventional kickstarter wisdom that if you have had a good start, you're not going to make it. Whilst I like to buck that trend, if it doesn't work I'll go away lick my wounds, take on board all the things I can't change now and come back stronger and more prepared.

The reason you probably remember it being worse than it is now, is hopefully because it is a bit better. I've took on lots of advise (and still am) and trying to improve it. However some things can't be fixed, others it a matter of time to get stuff done. Of course fitting that stuff in between the normal contract work I do to keep a roof over my head is a bit frustrating but thats the life of an indie.

Everything, success or failure, teaches you something, I hope this will be a success but if not I'll have experience and learnt alot about 'selling'

Anyway I'm currently writing a description of the game with pics, tidying up my rough apperance and video performance and other bits of bobs. And of course reaching out to sites etc. as much as possible.
I plan of doing a reddit IaMA soon, but will wait until its a bit better pitch before I do. No point getting hits (if I get any extra hit) if it turns them off.

[merman]

So, say it does hit its target - Is this a good thing or bad thing for the Games Industry in the UK?

We don't seem to have too many good news stories pertaining to the "biz" so it'd be nice if it did what it set out to do, no?

I don't think it's good news for the industry as a whole in the UK. Braben has an established company making money from its games, but could not get a publisher to fund this game (or any of the previous attempts to revive Elite). The story about the British teenager launching a best-selling app was better news.

In reality, UK software houses are going to have to rely on contract work to survive (cf Blitz and their work on various character-based games) and put themselves in a position to propose new IP. Kickstarter is not going to change that, and if too many projects fail to get funding it could be very harmful.

[DeanoC]

I don't think it's good news for the industry as a whole in the UK. Braben has an established company making money from its games, but could not get a publisher to fund this game (or any of the previous attempts to revive Elite). The story about the British teenager launching a best-selling app was better news.

In reality, UK software houses are going to have to rely on contract work to survive (cf Blitz and their work on various character-based games) and put themselves in a position to propose new IP. Kickstarter is not going to change that, and if too many projects fail to get funding it could be very harmful.

You're assuming Mr B wanted a publisher for Elite. There was a definite vibe around my (very small) involvement with it, that it was never seriously pushed towards a publisher due to the publisher issues around Frontier 1 & 2. AFAICT it was always intended to be self funded and indeed the technology of Outsiders was seens as a precursor (make a believable city and then scale out).

Most games dev rely on contract work, whether work for hire projects, working for other studios to fill in gaps in their dev team or paid prototypes. The only real other way (without a successful rich IP) is to work very small and close to the bone, similar to Jeff and Giles and Julian Gollop.

Kickstarter hopefully will enable some short circuiting of the years of making 1% profit on work for hire, by showing your idea upfront and funding direct from the consumer.

The problem being that kickstarter may itself become just another publisher pitch, so with all the problems associated with that model previously (large upfront cost, previous IP required, celebrity more important than game design, etc.).

[DeanoC]

http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/elite-d ... -interview

Thats getting a bit desperate for news! I now think the whole not providing a video or screen shots was a cunning ploy for extra hype

[Darkflame]

Thats likely just some experimental space combat stuff Frontier has had for at least a year or two. Probably some of the code will make it into Elite4, but it isnt exactly Elite4 development yet I dont think.

[Sir_LANs-a-lot]

Dave B has uploaded a new vid on the project page for this now.

[Jimaroid]

Hmmm. So they've been working on Elite for years and that was the best he could rustle up in the past few days?

*massive chin rub*

[rowan]

I'd like to think he's being shrewd by gradually adding bits to the pitch for the duration of the funding, to keep people watching.

I appear to find myself within the group of people more likely to pledge as a project nears its funding goal.
I'd like this to happen and I'm wanting to take part but it hasn't reached its critical mass for me yet and I've a feeling it won't.