Elite on Kickstarter...

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by KlaxonCow »

merman wrote:Black Mesa didn't.
Yeah, but Black Mesa was late. Very late.

So late that it was given a "vaporware of the year" award by Wired and folks were making jokes, listing it alongside Duke Nukem Forever and Longhorn, because people didn't think it'd ever be finished at all.

It took 8 years for it to be released and, let's remember, it still isn't finished even now.

(It only goes up to the part where Gordon is about to be teleported to Xen. I know because I played it that far and I'm hoping that, now Greenlit on Steam, they'll use that to update the game and add on Xen, when it's ready, as I was very much enjoying it. It was a strange experience playing something that, on the one hand, seemed very familiar yet, on the other hand, I've strictly never seen any of it before. Both replaying a game and playing it for the very first time simultaneously. Weird.)

I mean, will it take another year or maybe two, before we get Xen? That'll bring it up to around a decade of development.

And, looking at Wikipedia, the volunteer team on Black Mesa was about 40 people in all. That's, all things considered, a decent number of people to have on a development team, particularly on a voluntarily project - indeed, how many people did Valve originally have? - so the length of development time can't really be blamed on a lack of manpower.

Rather, it probably can be blamed on a lack of manhours. That is, because these people were doing it voluntarily, they couldn't prioritise it over paid work, as they all need to eat and pay the bills. It was being squeezed in between real life and real work. An hour here, an hour there. Entirely in their spare time - assuming their actual jobs and family lives left them much in the way of spare time at all.

So, sure, Black Mesa didn't have any formal investment. But it clearly suffered for that.

It's taken 8 years to still only be some three quarters complete?

That's the price you pay for not paying the price.
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Firefox »

Christian wrote:My favourite was the formation flying where NPCs would fly in formation, break off to fight a battle then re-group into formation and fly off.
Cor, that sounds a bit good...
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Muttley »

Firefox wrote:
Christian wrote:My favourite was the formation flying where NPCs would fly in formation, break off to fight a battle then re-group into formation and fly off.
Cor, that sounds a bit good...
Kind of like this, from the Star Citizen kickstarter?

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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Darkflame »

I iike procedural clouds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTBvpd3_ ... ded#t=249s
:D
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Firefox »

Muttley wrote:Kind of like this, from the Star Citizen kickstarter?
Phwoar! :D

Darkflame wrote:I iike procedural clouds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTBvpd3_ ... ded#t=249s
A t-shirt, a shirt and a fleece? FRONTIER CAN'T EVEN AFFORD TO TURN THE HEATING ON!!!1!

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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Jamesac »

If you can go sightseeing through the universe, through the clouds of gas giants and over the surface of the sun, they may have just instantly made me do a complete 180 on giving the Elite Kickstarter a pass. :)

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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by merman »

The point I was making is that if it was just about nostalgia and a labour of love, a new Elite could have been made as a project without Kickstarter funding. Whatever faults or delays Black Mesa had, it still happened because of the enthusiasm and commitment - not because they were getting paid. Elite Dangerous is neither a big commercial proposition or a heartfelt project to make an old game live again. It's somewhere in between and that is why I am still sceptical it will work out.
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Surfr »

Just dropped 40 notes to get my name in the DB. Not even half way there to funding yet, but I have high hopes that this sees the light of day.
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Darkflame »

Just a hunch, but I suspect theres more free time and less pressure to earn a living on the Black Mesa developers then the staff at Frontier.
Not that I am remotely putting BM down for that, I just think its like charity, wonderfull when people can do it, but it shouldn't be expected as the norm.

I guess one thing about Elite though is it doesn't pretend to be much more then it is. A lot of the biggest success's on KS start by talking about how games used to be and this new game in genre X will bring all the back. Just like you remember.
Elites pitch seems more logical and less heart. Which is fine by me but I can see why that might get less attention. If it was me Id be screaming about procedurals - which shows I know bugger all about marketing.
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Surfr »

Darkflame wrote:I iike procedural clouds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTBvpd3_ ... ded#t=249s
:D
I was looking for some stuff on procedural terrain generation recently and found this gem. Bit off topic but if the planets looked like this in Elite I'd need new pants by the minute.


Theres a followup video on the comments for that with atmosphere and space flight too.
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Darkflame »

Anyone is allowed to offtopic any time they like if they post stuff like that imho :D
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Sir_LANs-a-lot »

That looks fookin' lush! 8O
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Istar »

Yeah, except no-one ever gets the descent scaling right. The only game I've seen where orbit-to-ground scaling is actually fairly accurate is Kerbal Space Program - in all these others games, it's "approach, approach, orbit, orbit, descent start, descent, BANG sea level".

It just undermines the whole "striving for realism" thing if you're 20 miles up and everything looks tiny, and then suddenly you're 100 feet above sea level because all the ground features scaled up too fast.
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Dio »

That's because fundamentally it's an impossible problem to solve in a playable way. Taking half an hour to transit from orbital to stratospheric level would be astoundingly tedious.

Nobody has managed to combine realism and entertainment in space in a meaningful way and I don't expect that to change. Of the two, for a game, only the entertainment portion is a requirement, so it's essential to dump the realism side by either bending the laws of physics or handwaving the problem away (the most obvious example being the invention of teleport / transporters).

I would actually go so far as to argue that it's daft to even try. Build something that's fun to play and I could not give a monkey's.
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Re: Elite on Kickstarter...

Post by Darkflame »

True-ish, you could hide a camera cut with clouds or a burn-up style effect though to keep the scale right though.
--

Anyway they updated with new rewards:
http://www.frontier.co.uk/dangerous_kic ... s/pledges/
Basicly mostly 3D prints of the various game ships at different scales.
Have a physical paperback copy of the “Elite: Dangerous” music
Not sure that means.
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