Politics Thread!

[bumblebee]

Here -- the British government admits there are no jobs and those that are available, are poorly paid. You can use it in your next elections.

I don't know about the Romanians as they are way more as a population than all the Bulgarians in the world, but there is not much influx you can expect from about 6 million that are still there. Whoever wanted to go out, has done it already.

[Little stoned kiwi]

I guess it isn't the same the world over. Our government would never own up to that same reality we are also facing.

[bumblebee]

I guess it isn't the same the world over. Our government would never own up to that same reality we are also facing.

Äh!?

[pogo]

The article said these were one of many things being discussed. In practice when such discussions are prematurely aired and held up for ridicule in in the papers they are usually quietly dropped.

Immigrants are very rational. They don't come here as latter-day Dick Whittington's seeking streets paved with gold. They come here for the jobs. And with employment at record levels there are more jobs in this country than ever before. Unemployment is lower than the rest of Europe and falling. The weather's better too: it gets pretty cold in Romania and Bulgaria.

As usual the government is being wrong-headed on immigration. We had mass employment from the EU a few years ago as we were more open to newly joining countries' citizens than the rest of the EU. And it didn't lead to mass unemployment or crash the economy: it boosted the economy, though it's hard to say by how much not least as the government doesn't know how many came and stayed.

[bumblebee]

If one judges solely on the basis of what's written in the media one will conclude that Britain is awfully scared from an unknown number of people from the far end of the main continent who are going to come and live off your social system. While I do think that a few Balkan gypsies will most certainly try their luck on the streets and elsewhere, the way they do in their home countries, I can not understand the hysteria. Are people really so afraid? Is this the opinion of most? And do they really believe that masses of Romanians and Bulgarians will food the island?

And, by the way, Bulgaria can be cold in the winter but the climate is continental and at higher altitude thus dry, so it feels different. I can stand cold there much better than here.

[pogo]

The press is very diverse in what it says, but the campaign against immigration seems to be led by the more right-wing popular papers, the Mail in particular. It's hardly mass market but it seems to be unduly influential.

There are many things wrong with what they say though. First the campaign is based totally on prejudice, not evidence. There's no evidence they "come here and take our jobs". They came here (from Poland mostly), many of them are still here and have not caused mass unemployment.

Second they are targeting net migration, the difference between incoming and outgoing migrants. But they are only able to target one of those, and only some of those. They are very unlikely to hit their target as they have no say over most of the immigration (most of it is British citizens who can come and go as they please). They are therefore likely to keep trying, and doing damage, until they realise this.

Third as they can't do much about Brits, Poles or Romanians they're targeting those from outside the EU. But these are some of the most valuable immigrants. They include people on work visas who only come if there's a well paying job that needs them. And students who each put tens of thousands of pounds into the economy.

[Dio]

the Mail in particular. It's hardly mass market but it seems to be unduly influential.

As Yes Minister said, it's read by the wives of the people who run the country.

[pogo]

The Guardian has invited readers to come up with posters for the government's hypothetical campaign

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/gallery/20 ... rs-gallery)

[Ratsoap]

There are quite a number of Romanians on the streets of Edinburgh already. They have various 'pitches' where they sit and beg, and rotate where they sit weekly. According to a social worker friend, they all answer to a gang-master who takes a percentage of the cash they get. They mostly seem like nice enough folk, and I can't see the sky falling just yet.

The luckier ones seem to end up selling the big issue.

It's certainly not a life I would aspire to though, as the weather here is shite, and they are out there in it all week long.

[Jimaroid]

Sigh! Childcare. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21232270

So I'm in the midst of a massive anguish over childcare at the moment and this seems a bit of a fortuitous proposal. Yes, the cost is a big part of my anguish, but also trust and quality of childcare on offer and the simple fact that handing our child over to, for all intents and purposes, a complete stranger who's going to have a big impact on our daughter's mental development.

I just can't see how these proposals improve the situation in either cost or quality.

Do the tories really expect childcare providers to pass on the opportunity to make more money? If carers need to raise staff qualification, where is that cost saving going to go? Not to the parents, that's for sure.

Fuck's sake. Depressing as hell and don't know what to do.

[Space Cowboy]

Any question that begins "Do the tories...." really needs to be re-phrased as "Does the government..." because there really is NO. FUCKING. DIFFERENCE. between the three big parties.

Still, nice degree of cynicism when a government increases the possibility that existing, and new providers, might be able to offer childcare cheaper than is currently the case. (Regulatory burden is a big barrier to innovation in the supply of goods and services, why do you think big business supports it?)

[Mayhem]

the Mail in particular. It's hardly mass market but it seems to be unduly influential.

Second biggest selling newspaper in the country, most visited news website in the world... influential, just more duly than you might think.

[Space Cowboy]

Influential? Possibly, or that it understands it's target audiences and writes content that doesn't disrupt their view of the world.

[merman]

Ha, defeat again for the Government over boundary changes. Lib Dems helped vote it down.

[PFVA]

Here -- the British government admits there are no jobs and those that are available, are poorly paid. You can use it in your next elections.

I don't know about the Romanians as they are way more as a population than all the Bulgarians in the world, but there is not much influx you can expect from about 6 million that are still there. Whoever wanted to go out, has done it already.

From that Guardian article

.

There was no word on how any advert might look or whether it would use the strategy of making Britain look as horrible as possible or try to encourage would-be migrants to wake up to the joys of their own countries whether Romania's Carpathian mountains or Bulgaria's Black Sea resorts.

Erm... that's not going to work Portugal has wonderful (in most people's opinion) climate, wonderful ocean and beaches, beautiful green mountains on the Northern portion and tons of people are in the UK, not to mention France, Switzerland, Germany, and Louxembourg.

The key for people not to leave is jobs in their own country.

As for romanians and the famous Roma Clan gypsies that Conservatives in several countries, including Sarkozy seem to have a preference to use in their speeches against immigration i still don't understand how can one single group of European Citizens be so discriminated against. And yes we know there is a lot of social problems with that group but other gypsy clans have been integrated or at least semi-integrated. The hispanic clans come to mind, the EU needs to do for the Roma people what they have done for the others.