Politics Thread!

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Re: Politics Thread!

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PFVA wrote:As for romanians and the famous Roma Clan gypsies that Conservatives in several countries, including Sarkozy seem to have a preference to use in their speeches against immigration i still don't understand how can one single group of European Citizens be so discriminated against. And yes we know there is a lot of social problems with that group but other gypsy clans have been integrated or at least semi-integrated. The hispanic clans come to mind, the EU needs to do for the Roma people what they have done for the others.
You can't make people do something they don't want to do. Unless you force them. This said, the Roma are not easy. They have lived on the Balkans for centuries and never became part of whatever society there was, while other groups like the Armenians, Jewish, the Turkish have basically melted into our population (the latter being artificially dragged out by politicians who need some.. any! sort of agenda). It is exactly this kind of refusal to play by the rules what the French experienced and many others will, over time, as they meet more Roma. The trouble is that to start a process of integration you'll need some level of trust, and there's little trust at least among Bulgarians towards the Roma.. unfortunately.

It's not all gloom though. There are small towns and villages where "locals" live well with Roma but then this is also where the Roma have sent their kids to school and where they have taken half of the initiative to integrate.

Oh, and one thing that angers Romanians in particular is when they are being equated with the Roma -- it's a similar sounding name and they may carry the same passports, but at least ethnically, they are different.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by PFVA »

I understand the problem. We have them here. Things must not be good in Romania because they still choose to come here. But a lot of what i see in problems with them were very similar to the ones ones the other gipsy clans had a few decades ago. And even though in other clans there is also still a refusal to fully integrate things aren't as bad as they were, specially among the new generations.

What you said about some small towns and villages and the semi-integration is the same thing one of the leaders of the gipsy rights associations (we have a few of those and they are quite active) said a while ago on our telly. There is portions of their culture they had to let go in order to achieve that semi-integration, things like letting the kids go to school, etc.

And even with our clans they are a lot more integrated and active in the small town than in the capital. Same with the Roma i find the ones in our municipality more integrated than ones in the big city. Somehow those don't seem to be a good place for integration.

Sill my point is that the Roma are European citizens, just like the other clans from countries within the European Union and as such they cannot be discriminated against and they should not be stopped from crossing borders.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by merman »

2,000 fewer police in the last six months.

Cameron promising defence spending above inflation until after the next election.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by PFVA »

Maybe this explains politics in general:

Across the ocean, at Havard
Harvard asks dozens of students to leave for cheating
An inquiry began when a tutor noticed identical answers to a take-home exam for an undergraduate politics course.
.... ...
Correspondents say there have been complaints that exam rules for the Introduction to Congress class were unclear
... ...
The dean added that an internal committee would put forward recommendations on how to promote honesty within the institution.

"This is a time for communal reflection and action," Mr Smith said. "We are responsible for creating the community in which our students study and we all thrive as scholars."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21303390
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Re: Politics Thread!

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No tax breaks for married couples in the Budget, which was being widely expected to soother backbenchers upset over Cameron's support for gay marriage.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Re: Politics Thread!

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(o)(o) wrote:This ones for bumblebee
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/feb/0 ... n-campaign
Thanks for the link!
Yes, there are a few things that I don't like about this article, but it generally makes a decent conclusion.

First, that Behar woman comes from an affluent family and her letter was discussed in Bulgarian blogs as talking from the point of view of a minority in the country. Bulgaria has a lot of problems and a lot of young people want to leave the country -- not because they can not earn enough money to live well, but because the ruling class and the way this society functions has become unbearable to many. So, letters like that are not much but propaganda. Which fits well, considering this young lady is the daughter of a PR-company owner.

What the article gets right is that if one looks at it with a pinch of sanity, the hysteria in the British media sounds... well, childish at best. Like I said before, what Bristish politicians manage to achieve now is a hostile popular opinion in both countries, and the resulting reluctance in the so-called "good Bulgarians and Romanians" (read, those with money) to even bother visit. Those who would not be moved are the poor Roma who will come as they have been doing for some time now, as any thinking person would have already noticed that they are free to do so. Even now! The only thing that will change January 2014 is that potential job seekers will be able to get hired. Right now, anyone can stay freely while being self-employed. Why is the UK not flooded with Bulgarians and Romanians? But only money-bringing students that, from what I read, are met with increasing number of administrative difficulties. Second class EU citizens, we are. Yup!

And it's not only the readers of the Daily Fail, to be honest -- I see the same level of ignorance from the mass of comments in the Guardian. I like to say that in every country in the world, there is a majority of the dumb. The only difference is the variation of that percent in relation to the entire population. I'm sad to say that in the past week or so I had to reconsider my idea about the base level of intelligence on the Island. *sigh*
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Re: Politics Thread!

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bumblebee wrote:The only thing that will change January 2014 is that potential job seekers will be able to get hired. Right now, anyone can stay freely while being self-employed. Why is the UK not flooded with Bulgarians and Romanians?
Hmm, so Bulgarians and Romanians are able to freely move here now - as long as they're self employed, and yet we aren't flooded with them, and why is that? Oh, I don't know, perhaps my base level of intelligence doesn't reach the same stratospheric heights yours does.

Just a quick question; are they eligible for benefits at the moment or does that only come once they're allowed to seek work here?
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Space Cowboy wrote:
bumblebee wrote:The only thing that will change January 2014 is that potential job seekers will be able to get hired. Right now, anyone can stay freely while being self-employed. Why is the UK not flooded with Bulgarians and Romanians?
Hmm, so Bulgarians and Romanians are able to freely move here now - as long as they're self employed, and yet we aren't flooded with them, and why is that? Oh, I don't know, perhaps my base level of intelligence doesn't reach the same stratospheric heights yours does.

Just a quick question; are they eligible for benefits at the moment or does that only come once they're allowed to seek work here?
Oh, sorry that I touched your sensibility! My bad. If somebody calls stupid people stupid, do you automatically consider yourself spoken to? If you do, I can't help you with that.

Regarding your question, from what I have read (unfortunately I don't remember where) freelancers in the UK have access to the NHS but of course, pay taxes like everyone. A minister, quoted by the Guardian had this to say:
At the moment if somebody comes here to work they can access the health service on the same basis as someone who lives here.
Is this a yes? Perhaps.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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bumblebee wrote:
At the moment if somebody comes here to work they can access the health service on the same basis as someone who lives here.
Is this a yes? Perhaps.
That's a no. Unfortunately, if you are self-employed, you are ineligible for Jobseeker's allowance for six months after it ends, you're also not allowed it for six months if you resign.

In the Thatcher years, a new plan was brought in to encourage people to become self employed, and the rule about self employment was introduced at that time to stop people taking the money and going straight back on the dole for a quick profit. The plan ended, the law didn't change back. So now, if you're self employed in the UK and your work doesn't make a profit, you are in deep trouble.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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bumblebee wrote:Oh, sorry that I touched your sensibility! My bad. If somebody calls stupid people stupid, do you automatically consider yourself spoken to? If you do, I can't help you with that.
Actually, no, I don't assume you're speaking for me. Rather the assumption I make is you're the kind of arrogant arsehole who thinks anyone having a different opinion to the one you hold must be stupid. After all, in your tiny mind, what other reason could there possibly be?
Is this a yes? Perhaps.
No, it isn't. You're either falling way short of your self proclaimed levels of intelligence, or you're being disingenuous. Your pick.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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zip accident wrote:
bumblebee wrote:Is this a yes? Perhaps.
That's a no. Unfortunately, if you are self-employed, you are ineligible for Jobseeker's allowance for six months after it ends, you're also not allowed it for six months if you resign.

In the Thatcher years, a new plan was brought in to encourage people to become self employed, and the rule about self employment was introduced at that time to stop people taking the money and going straight back on the dole for a quick profit. The plan ended, the law didn't change back. So now, if you're self employed in the UK and your work doesn't make a profit, you are in deep trouble.
Oh that's interesting. Thanks for explaining! Those rules apply to everybody, then?
Space Cowboy wrote: Actually, no, I don't assume you're speaking for me. Rather the assumption I make is you're the kind of arrogant arsehole who thinks anyone having a different opinion to the one you hold must be stupid. After all, in your tiny mind, what other reason could there possibly be?
That's absolutely correct! Very tiny mind.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by Absolute_Zero »

Chris Huhne admits perverting the course of justice

At this late stage, I don't see him dodging a custodial sentence.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by zip accident »

bumblebee wrote:Oh that's interesting. Thanks for explaining! Those rules apply to everybody, then?
So far as I know.

I remember being told by a member of Job Centre staff that the rules change on average by about one paperback books worth of text every week, so probably nobody really knows all of the rules exactly.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by zip accident »

Also relevant to politics and self-employment (though not that relevant to Bulgarian immigrants):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21260331
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