Politics Thread!

[tufty]

[pogo]

I argue that private schools don't actually have dramatically better outcomes if you factor out the difference in ability at intake, the level of parental support, selection and the old school tie.

And even taking your view and assuming that's not the case - doesn't the funding gap of a factor of 2-20 per pupil have some kind of effect?

There certainly is selection which impacts ability of intake, but only at some schools. Across the whole sector though the effect will be minimal. The main requirement for getting a private education is being willing to pay for it. If you're too thick for Eton many other schools will take you and your money.

Funding is a factor, although some of that will be down to costs such as accommodation, marketing, setting and running entrance tests. The question is how much difference spending can make. School spending went up over 50% under Labour but outcomes barely budged, once you strip out the effect of ever easier exams.

[Dio]

Ability at intake is impacted by far more than just selection.

[Harlequin]

I feel slightly embarrassed to mention it but throughout my secondary education I seemed to be taught very little that I had not learned in a couple of years in a private school in my pre-teens. Factual learning, that is; the additional focus on actually using our minds to, for example, formulate and articulate opinions seemed to be almost entirely lacking in my secondary (grammar and comprehensive) education.

I nicked an A-Level maths textbook from my last school. Looking through it years later I found that I recognised stuff that had never been mentioned at O-Level. Then I remembered that I'd been taught it at around ten years of age or earlier.

[pogo]

Ability at intake is impacted by far more than just selection.

Like what? There are undoubtably some differences in intake. Some social problems which impact student performance are closely related to poverty. And probably some parents choose to place students in state or private education based on their ability, especially if scholarships are available for them.

But my point was, looking not just at the 'top' schools but the whole private sector, they are set up to teach anyone and everyone able to pay. This is especially true of foreign students who can arrive woefully poorly prepared but who bring in more money so who schools accept with open arms.

It's also easy to find evidence that the main difference in student outcomes is down to the schools. There's the fact the schools exist at all: they would not last long charging as they do if they didn't produce markedly better student outcomes. Or top university admissions, which are still skewed heavily in favour of private schools despite the ever 'improving' A-level results in state schools, even allowing for demographic differences. Not the fault of the universities who bend over backwards to admit the best students from whatever background.

FWIW my solution to the challenge posed by private schools is to make them more accessible, not less, with a voucher system. Work out how much it costs to educate each student then have this money follow the students wherever they go, in state or private schools. Some schools would be private but free to students. Some would charge small top-up fees to offer an enhanced education. Some would charge much more as today.

Right now even if you educate your child at a private school you're still paying for the state school place (through tax). As good education is expensive this means private education is only for a rich elite. But it doesn't have to be. If private education were available to everyone it would no longer be just for the elite; everyone not just those with wealth would benefit. This is the system in Hong Kong and standards there are much higher, not just in the private sector but across the school system, even in government run schools which have to compete for the same students.

[merman]

Reshuffle. Watching a herd of nobodies parade in and out of Downing Street hoping to be somebody by being given a better Government post, when in reality none of them are qualified to do the job. There's going to be no change in the top jobs, which is the real shame.

[Space Cowboy]

But if I was in charge I would require all children in full-time education to be at a state school rather than a private one so obviously I would be.

Then thank fuck you aren't in charge. Fucking authoritarians thinking they have the right to dictate what everyone else can and can't do.

[gravy]

But if I was in charge I would require all children in full-time education to be at a state school rather than a private one so obviously I would be.

Then thank fuck you aren't in charge. Fucking authoritarians thinking they have the right to dictate what everyone else can and can't do.

Are you saying authoritarians shouldn't be allowed to do that?

[gilesgoat]

.. makes me cry thinking there was a time when Italian state/public ( totally free of charge ) school was considered to be very good and very formative ..

.. was ..

Now ( in Italy ) they tell me be this state/public and/or private it does not matter is shit everywhere

[pogo]

And in case anyone still believes our state schools are doing so well that they should be the only sorts of schools available:

England's young people near bottom of global league table for basic skills
OECD finds 16- to 24-year-olds have literacy and numeracy levels no better than those of their grandparents' generation

The subheading strongly suggests English education has got worse over a generation. Of course some disagree:

Labour hit back, saying that while in government it "drove up standards in maths and English across our schools, evident in the huge improvements we saw in GCSE results between 1997 and 2010".

Which shows why politicians shouldn't be put in charge of maintaining educational standards, as they shamelessly manipulate them for political reasons (in Labour's case they pumped masses of money into Education and wanted to prove that this achieved more than just richer teachers). Putting them in sole charge of education, by e.g. outlawing private schools, would make it much easier for them to fiddle the results and get away with it.

[merman]

The Tories are no better - look at all the problems with free schools.

[Absolute_Zero]

Perhaps they should make clear to the peasants that a major chunk of our ever-escalating bills relate directly to the astoundingly expensive green agenda. It would be less regressive to those most challenged by fuel poverty if those costs were shifted from big energy to general taxation. However, politicians of most stripes would rather those charges were identified with the energy companies.

Apparently the SNP have grasped that smuggling eco charges into energy bills is regressive. Welcome to YakYak, Alex.

[Darkflame]

While probably more specifically ontopic in the snowdan case, I had to post this here out of the shear scaryness now of the idiot in charge;

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/o ... e-guardian

what has happened has damaged national security and in many ways the Guardian themselves admitted that when they agreed, when asked politely by my national security adviser and cabinet secretary to destroy the files they had, they went ahead and destroyed those files.

So, basically, if you don't fight with authorities raiding your building your admitting guilt.
Wow.
Also phrasing a physical raid on their property as "Politely Asking" boggles the mind.

I have been living in the Netherlands for awhile now...getting increasingly relived I moved....but I look back at my home country and really....Censorship, Mass spying, and now heavy press intimidation......why the fuck isn't there riots in the streets? why isn't the opposition party's capitalizing on this shit?

[Governmentyard]

The opposition parties aren't really opposition parties. Why would you chastise Cameron for saying or doing something that will benefit you equally if you oust him?

You have to go on record with some adversarial low-level mutterings from a junior minister to satisfy the plebs in the sticks but you don't dwell on this stuff at PMQs or anything, you push your own agenda.

[gravy]

I have been living in the Netherlands for awhile now...getting increasingly relived I moved....but I look back at my home country and really....Censorship, Mass spying, and now heavy press intimidation......why the fuck isn't there riots in the streets? why isn't the opposition party's capitalizing on this shit?

All of those things? They're bad, absolutely they are. But to you pretty abstract. If you lived in the UK the only way it'd really affect you is the same way it does now; reading about it on the internet and making you tut.

And it looks like the Dutch were using PRISM data as well

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201306 ... does.shtml

This isn't an issue with the UK. It's an issue with governments in general doing shit they shouldn't because the net lets them. It's going to take a while to settle down.

TBH from my point of view the best argument you can make for living in Holland is it's not Portsmouth