Politics Thread!

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Kelloggs
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by Kelloggs »

gravy wrote:Here's the trend over time in the US

Image
I have to ask - rhetorically, and, as a big fat lump, not entirely without self-interest - but...

WTF happened in (for the sake of argument) 1989? Prior to that, I'd suggest statistical noise about some average level. Since then... well, that's got to be either better diagnostics or one hell of an environmental change - and I'm always slightly suspicious of, "Oh, it's higher now because we're better at catching it". That would be understandable if it went up by a constant factor (e.g. 50% better diagnoses leading to 50% more cases; figures for demonstration purposes only), but that's not what the graph shows. That's... staggering.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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It's likely obesity related but why that's surged isn't super clear either.

Lots of theories though, I'm sympathetic to the view that sugar (especially fructose) is basically poison and the shift from low fat foods has seen the sugar content in processed foods increase significantly through adding sugar directly or through simple carbohydrates.

As Darkflame says there's also some evidence that alzheimer's is tied to similar causes now.

Why do people eat shit that's really bad for them? It tastes really nice and high sugar processed foods it actually makes you want to eat more rather than satiate your appetite. It's a perfect product!

It's just a theory but if it is right it'd mean some form of regulation or at least tax of foodstuffs loads of people love eating and in turn multi-nationals having to give up a level of profit. Or pay for the shit they've caused. That kind of change takes decades
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Oh yeah. Type 1 is rising too. No one knows why.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Kelloggs wrote:WTF happened in (for the sake of argument) 1989?
1985 (first lump in the graph) - Reagan sworn in for second term.
1989 (second lump) - George Bush Senior sworn in
1996 (third lump) - Clinton sworn in for second term.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by gilesgoat »

gravy wrote:It's likely obesity related but why that's surged isn't super clear either.

Lots of theories though, I'm sympathetic to the view that sugar (especially fructose) is basically poison and the shift from low fat foods has seen the sugar content in processed foods increase significantly through adding sugar directly or through simple carbohydrates.

As Darkflame says there's also some evidence that alzheimer's is tied to similar causes now.

Why do people eat shit that's really bad for them? It tastes really nice and high sugar processed foods it actually makes you want to eat more rather than satiate your appetite. It's a perfect product!

It's just a theory but if it is right it'd mean some form of regulation or at least tax of foodstuffs loads of people love eating and in turn multi-nationals having to give up a level of profit. Or pay for the shit they've caused. That kind of change takes decades
I can agree in that , lot of industrial food seems to be designed around these concepts :

- cut down production times and costs

- minimal input, maximal output

- costs over quality

- mega controlled 'standardized taste' no room for natural diversity

I believe we live in times of "totally manufactured tastes" and a "subliminal process" of "sweetification".

Everything is sweet, everything is "rounded to a taste that is ideal" .. lot of stuff that never been sweet is sweet.

For those ( very lucky ) that grew up in different time with real food that came out straight from the garden you know that :

- "real food is quite often imperfect" ( i.e. quite some times it may not taste SO perfectly good as it should )

- "real food is never the same twice", it depends on the climatic conditions of the season

- whatever happened to bitter, sharp, "wild" tastes of things ?

Natural food has fat that tastes more fat, meat that tastes more meaty and 'wild' ( strongly influenced by the animal diet and life ) often the meat
is more chewy than tender but there's a much higher range of subtle tastes and back tastes to things.

Today we live into msg + structure + flavours + sugars + refined fats + else

Often one ends up in eating shit for 'convenience' be this costs first and availability second and time third and cause "despite all you'll still live around 50" or so
probably killed before by other things, in US certainly age is probably not what will end your life first :mrgreen: ( forgetting about the 'bad things' work will probably kill you first or made you totally insane first, secondly your debts ).

I agree that sugars and certain things the fuck I know why are pure drugs, even worse than nicotine or else, you eat some stuff it penetrates some of your brain whatever it's just 'can't have enough of this' , nothing about 'hunger' it's about "I love the feeling when I eat it, end", it's pure brain reward more than stomach reward.

What pisses me off/still surprises me it's how much packed of calories even shittest foods are today, it's almost "incredible" you really snack, don't even let's say "eat" something you insert 100 cal like would be "totally nothing", I think you could well be over 2000 cal per day without even having the feel you actually eat anything and still be hungry.

About sugars also a few times I've done what I call "The Gaz experiment" and one thing is TRUE, fook me you note changes after a couple of weeks !

But it's fucking hard if you are a kind of 'sweet addicted' as I am ( the kind of person could die sinking into a vat of custard while still dipping pastry into and eat :roll: ).

It's not about "loss of weight" or such but a "strange positive overall feeling" of "my brain is more awake with less sugar" which seems counter intuitive but "something happens" .. and/or not sure it's me so full of andrenaline cause I miss sugar so much :lol:

But yeah sugar should be 'a thing in moderation' NOT 'a thing of every day', I can truly be convinced that "in excess" it IS a poison more than anything else, but so a bit of everything as well.

As per proteins well .. personally I'd swap meat for ( fresh ) fish and yeah that you are vegetarian or not lots of veggies are always good for you.

The bottom line is that if you really can't do without some shit stuff at least you should keep a very careful eye over it and try to not overabuse it nor consider it "normal" because shit stuff isn't normal, it's a "forced normality" by the current industry/society but it's not "normal" at all nor it should be.

Ah yes and do more exercise as well, diet is nothing without some exercise, you don't feel well or be well only because you eat well.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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tufty wrote:
Kelloggs wrote:WTF happened in (for the sake of argument) 1989?
1985 (first lump in the graph) - Reagan sworn in for second term.
1989 (second lump) - George Bush Senior sworn in
1996 (third lump) - Clinton sworn in for second term.
Wasn't one of them that made A LAW forbidding ( or implying they should NOT ) use sugar in US but only HFCS not sure why/what the reason but had to do with some costs/things and turned out that HFCS made stuff even worse ?
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Re: Politics Thread!

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No law, it's just very cheap and came into mass usage around that time.

So there's a theory that may be the cause.

That said we have a similar scale and rise of problem in Europe where HFCS useage is a lot lot lower.

So who knows. Something is definitely happening though
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by gilesgoat »

gravy wrote:No law, it's just very cheap and came into mass usage around that time.

So there's a theory that may be the cause.

That said we have a similar scale and rise of problem in Europe where HFCS useage is a lot lot lower.

So who knows. Something is definitely happening though
I am pretty sure I read somewhere can't remember what president made some sort of reccomendation/bill/something about the industry NOT to use actually sugar but replace all the sugar usage with HFCS "because it was better for US economy" or such, it was in the news somewhere time ago.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Farmers get subsidies from the government for corn production in the US so it's cheap to produce.I don't think it's anything to do with HFCS in particular though.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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gilesgoat wrote:Often one ends up in eating shit for 'convenience' be this costs first and availability second and time third and cause "despite all you'll still live around 50" or so
probably killed before by other things, in US certainly age is probably not what will end your life first :mrgreen: ( forgetting about the 'bad things' work will probably kill you first or made you totally insane first, secondly your debts ).
But another problem we have is people living increasingly longer.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Because dieing of "old age" has never really been a thing, but rather lots of things - each one of those slowly being chipped away by science.

Could also be because the average age people have children at has been increasing steadily, but I dont think thats been going on long enough for any evolutionary effects.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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gravy wrote:Farmers get subsidies from the government for corn production in the US so it's cheap to produce.I don't think it's anything to do with HFCS in particular though.
I do believe it does have a fair bit to do with HFCS for the US, but not the whole picture, certainly not. But you can't move for the stuff in the US quite often, it's in there somewhere in the ingredients list of a lot of processed food stuffs. Sure, we don't use HFCS really in the UK (moreso glucose instead), but it's still processed sugar either way. And it's still in food stuffs where it's not needed.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Can't simply be ~ fructose is a poison causes Type2.

80% of Type 2s are obese. Look at this picture of Woodstock Fruit Festival - almost all these people are on 80/10/10 (carb/fat/protein) fruit-heavy diets or similar. See how many obese people you can spot.

Image

(Zoom to closer pic here : http://durianrider.files.wordpress.com/ ... small.jpeg)

People who do not already have damaged metabolisms can consume tons of fresh fruit and remain lean.

I'd agree capitalism is a driver of problems with the food industry - increasing the NHS budget won't fix the underlying problems.. there are problems with advertising/processing/chem/pharma industries to be addressed.

Strongly believe in people using fresh ingredients, preferably organic, and preparing their own meals.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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(o)(o) wrote:Can't simply be ~ fructose is a poison causes Type2.

80% of Type 2s are obese. Look at this picture of Woodstock Fruit Festival - almost all these people are on 80/10/10 (carb/fat/protein) fruit-heavy diets or similar. See how many obese people you can spot.
[was huge picture] yeah, that's better now. What are you using for a monitor?
People who do not already have damaged metabolisms can consume tons of fresh fruit and remain lean.

I'd agree capitalism is a driver of problems with the food industry - increasing the NHS budget won't fix the underlying problems.. there are problems with advertising/processing/chem/pharma industries to be addressed.

Strongly believe in people using fresh ingredients, preferably organic, and preparing their own meals.
The problem is, sugar is chemically the same thing however it's made.

There must be something going on, but it can't be about whether sugar is factory made or not.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Strongly believe in people using fresh ingredients, preferably organic, and preparing their own meals.
Not sure preparing your own meals helps anything. I mean, obviously, you can trust you know whats in it, but assuming whats in it is fine, it shouldn't make a difference who makes it.

If we want fresh produce too, that means not storing it, which means a lot more transport to everyones house's.

I think their is thus a fairly good argument in favor of large communal cooking areas where things can be made both fresh and in large batches. Take a bit of a society change to work, but could start with students. Think I rambled on this idea before somewhere.
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