Politics Thread!

[merman]

On his first day as Chief Whip, Michael Gove ended up locked in the toilet in the lobby of the House of Commons. Is that considered a demotion too?

And Nick Clegg today saying he's against the spare room subsidy because it has failed. Hypocritical when he has supported and voted for it in the past.

[zip accident]

Nick Clegg today saying he's against the spare room subsidy because it has failed. Hypocritical when he has supported and voted for it in the past.

Hypocritcal would be saying it was obviously morally wrong when he had previously voted for it without professing to a change in moral outlook. Saying something doesn't work and you therefore no longer support it isn't definitely hypocrisy.

[venusian]

And Nick Clegg today saying he's against the spare room subsidy because it has failed. Hypocritical when he has supported and voted for it in the past.

By-and-large I'm very much in favour of politicians changing their minds. What looks to dogmatic tribalists like a hypocritical u-turns looks to others like feedback-driven pragmatism and learning.

[pogo]

Not so much hypocritical as cynical. It's settled govt. policy, it's not going to be changed this close to the election. So it goes in the Lib Dem manifesto. But they're not going to win a majority, and in the unlikely even that they end up in coalition (right now they're looking at a far smaller share of the vote and so far fewer MPs) its up for negotiation like everything else. It costs him nothing to go back on his previous vote.

I wonder how many more of these we'll see before the election, Lib Dems saying they only voted for XXX to keep the coalition together, they didn't really mean it ? There will be no more pledges after the tuition fee farce but a lot of manifesto commitments they know they can't keep.

[(o)(o)]

The reason Clegg has done a U-turn on bedroom tax is to distance the Libs from Cons.

There's more of this to come...

[gravy]

Yeah obv. And their other mantra is "it would have been a lot worst without our moderation"

Fact is they've pissed so heavily on their chips with people thinking they were voting centre-left rather than being an enable for Cameron & co.

Nothing them in 2015. Some time in the dog house and a replacement of the current soiled leadership may see something a bit more voteable for the term after.

[(o)(o)]

Yeah obv. And their other mantra is "it would have been a lot worst without our moderation"

Annoyingly, that's probably true. Not a lot worse, just a little bit - the Libs have been highly ineffectual.

Bedroom tax is a case in point. It was clearly never about reallocating people into more appropriate size properties. That was just a blag, and Clegg knew that all along.

I don't like politicians who change their minds often. That suggests they are weak, or are regularly making bad decisions. Cameron excels at the latter, Clegg the former. Miliband doesn't seem to have a mind of his own.

[Darkflame]

The UK data retention crap passed.
Somehow this "emergency" got accepted as being legit even though they knew this was coming for 3 months.

[pogo]

The main problem with revisiting the bedroom tax (other than reminding us how two-faced Lib Dems can be) is it's old. It's nice to know what the Lib Dems think about old policies. But to get elected they need to tell us what their new policies are – what they'll run on in 2015. This is especially important for the Lib Dems as few know what they stand for.

Probably most people, if asked what the Lib Dems stand for, would say PR. But that's an entirely self-serving policy and the one thing they managed to get on the statute books, getting a referendum out of it which was overwhelmingly rejected. They would be crazy to run on that again.

There is plenty of room for a liberal party in the UK. A socially liberal one, less hostile to immigration. One that supports open government and challenges the surveillance state. One more willing to take on vested interests on the left (unions) and right (businesses). After their time supporting the Tories the Lib Dems now more than ever need to remind us why we need a third party.

[zip accident]

After their time supporting the Tories the Lib Dems now more than ever need to remind us why we need a third party.

No, they need to make a case that that party should be theirs. There are plenty of others, Greens, UKIP, communists, nazis etc.

[pogo]

Only the Lib Dems manage a plurality of seats though. They really don't want to be comparing themselves to single-issue parties like the Greens who count a single seat as a stunning breakthrough. Unless they want to opt out of national politics for a while.

[zip accident]

Unless they want to opt out of national politics for a while.

They did that when they failed to get PR through.

[(o)(o)]

Probably most people, if asked what the Lib Dems stand for, would say PR.

No way.

Lib Dems are useless at PR. They have been the party of sycophants - compromising their entire vision for a quick go on the merry-go-round.

They have trashed their future chances - is how bad at PR they are.

The Conservatives have matched Blairite-Labour for PR.. using a different approach. Mainly, by not giving a flying fuck for facts or intellectual honesty.

[zip accident]

Lib Dems are useless at PR.

Proportional Representation, not Public Relations.

[(o)(o)]

Or, how about, Prostrational Representation.