Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Darkflame »

Is that algorithm tots super secret? Or is there public details to read anywhere?
Might be useful for some folks amongst my AR contacts - who often bring up the problem with lag when trying to sync virtual and real together.
fog wrote:
Darkflame wrote:Indeed. Sony > Facebook :twisted:
You must really hate Facebook :wink:
Well, er, push to come to shove Facebooks not done anything that bad. Not in the league of installing malware on cds or requisitioning peoples IPs and Emails from anyone watching a YouTube vid. Sony is still technically more of a bastard for me.
But its hard not to prefer someone a bit more involved with traditional gaming to have a big hand in VR then a social network firm. I dont remotely buy the "everyone will be using VR for social" and "we will sale to billions of people" idea they seem to have backed it for, and I worry a little that might eventually start pushing development in counterproductive directions.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gilesgoat »

I don't know to be honest ...

.. certainly everyone can apply/register as an OR developer and check things .. the algo as far as I know it's not fully an OR invention, it's more an implementation of something that already existed since long and been used for satellite images transmission and such .. if you look around for those things, you will find documentation around ..

There are papers that been published many years ago describing stuff like this.

Well to be honest I can't give less than a button to Facebook, as you say "as long as nobody forces me to develop SW in a certain way" what I care is the device that works and does what it says on the tin.

As long as they won't start with things like "you can sell OR SW ONLY via Facebook/etc. and we decide what comes out or not" .. well "Facebook is there and we are somewhere else and so other things" ..

That VR can be used for social is a thing, that it SHOULD be used for social is ANOTHER and that there are a tons of other ways/uses for it is yet another thing.

I am the last person in the world to buy into all this thing of "billions" of people/money like if "that has to be the only goal", to me the "goal" is that "there's a VR that really works, it can be
made even better, people is already quite understanding it and allows me to create SW/experiences never done before".

Money should be "a natural consequence" because "something is good and people wants to buy it" NOT because "everything been engineered so someone will buy something".

Otherwise the "tripping point" from "nice" to "not so nice" as we know it's far too easy to be reached ..
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Darkflame »

Social basically means interacting with people.
And I just dont see how VR, at least in its present form, helps that.
Yes, maybe browsing panoramas of friends photos will be marginally more interesting/less ignorable then photos posted on a social stream. But chatting in VR worlds? how many times has that vision failed. Second Life is the only success I know there.

I think in order for VR to be a "social norm" it would have to beat video chat - and for that all the emotions expressions and eye-contract of the human face needs to be reproduced somehow. Thats not going to be OR, at least not easily.

Social activities within games , sure - we already accept avatars in games and more limited forms of expression. Its an easier sale. Even easier if your in a spaceship so "face to face" interaction is really "ship to ship".

Not to mention gamers are generally more willing to plunk large somes of money down on hardware to improve their systems output. They might then experiment with other uses - I dought anyones going to buy a OR for just "street view in 3d".
As long as FB is satisfied with merely getting, say, "the best selling VR gaming device ever" and not end up being disappointed because its doesn't become as standard as TVs they will be fine.

Nah, long term I bet VR will dominate gaming, but wont make a dent in social apps - not until the devices dont obscure your face, and then your going into AR more then VR.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gilesgoat »

Darkflame wrote:Social basically means interacting with people.
And I just dont see how VR, at least in its present form, helps that.
Yes, maybe browsing panoramas of friends photos will be marginally more interesting/less ignorable then photos posted on a social stream. But chatting in VR worlds? how many times has that vision failed. Second Life is the only success I know there.

I think in order for VR to be a "social norm" it would have to beat video chat - and for that all the emotions expressions and eye-contract of the human face needs to be reproduced somehow. Thats not going to be OR, at least not easily.

Social activities within games , sure - we already accept avatars in games and more limited forms of expression. Its an easier sale. Even easier if your in a spaceship so "face to face" interaction is really "ship to ship".

Not to mention gamers are generally more willing to plunk large somes of money down on hardware to improve their systems output. They might then experiment with other uses - I dought anyones going to buy a OR for just "street view in 3d".
As long as FB is satisfied with merely getting, say, "the best selling VR gaming device ever" and not end up being disappointed because its doesn't become as standard as TVs they will be fine.

Nah, long term I bet VR will dominate gaming, but wont make a dent in social apps - not until the devices dont obscure your face, and then your going into AR more then VR.

Well .. what about a thing like WoW VR or "second life" VR or such ... it's starting to get into the realm of Better than life .. now that is really something to THINK about :roll: :!:

I mean you could be in VR with a shining armor fighting monsters with your super cool sword and magic and then see incredible places .. and then you wake up in some downtown Liverpool
apartment which is falling into pieces, drink a cup of tea and go out in a the real world in a gloomy rainy day, take a bus that has seen better day, end up in some stupid office space into
a cubicle having to deal with crap for 9 hours for a minimal wage or so and then go back home ? :wink:

Look at your SO that is not so cool as it used to be while you could have fantastic virtual intimate activities with that <insert various WoW species> which is "better than life" ?

When they'll start selling on the black market those sensory amplification drugs and illegal access to certain VR servers where "everything is permitted" .. you think it won't affect
social life of people ?

You think it cannot happen ? .. it's already happening :mrgreen:

How many times that vision falled ?

... man .. "you've been in the wrong places" ... there's .. there's stuff .. "even too much of it" .. but maybe people keeps it a bit more quiete ...

[edit] - if you have not seen it yet, I reccomend this movie Suicide Room .. is .. interesting ...
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Darkflame »

Oh, absolutely - we already get put into our own private bubbles. Games..or, at least, good games do that even if they are fairly low tech.
The rest of the world just fades away and we end up in whatever random game world we want. Our brain filters more and more out of reality for us.
VR helps that transition a bit, but we are happy as a species to give up one reality for another.

But its not a social thing - its a gamer thing. In order to get more and more people in the virtual worlds, you gota turn them into gamers first. But, well, that happens naturally anyway. People will always play games to greater or lesser amounts but the generations that have people that "don't play games" will fade away till they are as rare as people that "don't watch movies" or "dont read".
So eventually spending time, perhaps unhealthy amounts, in VR will be very likely. Going further - it might even become necessity. "the matrix" is crazy as an energy generation scenario, but makes sense as a minimal consumption of energy while keeping the most people alive. If resources become bad enough, or if we ever take up deep space travel, total VR becomes the only way to survive sanely.

Hell, maybe in a trillion years, maybe if humanity survives somehow, and we are facing the heat death of the universe, we are all just floating in our own computer systems, waiting for stray energy to hit us and run our simulation for a split second and give us the illusion of a continuous nicer reality. Maybe this is already going on ;)

--

But, anyway, for the near future my preference is AR. The real world reskinned, and made a darn site more interesting, is an acceptable compromise without the, say, muscle degradation followed by death of total VR addiction :lol:

*goes check that movie*
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by zip accident »

Darkflame wrote:The real world reskinned, and made a darn site more interesting,
There's a lot to be said for AR, but the real world not being interesting isn't one of them.

There are all sorts of things in the real world that don't exist in game software. There are no food webs in games, some of the big things in Skyrim kill some of the smaller things, but they don'r effectivwly eat them.

The real world is cold, wet, hot, too dry, there are volcanoes and earthquakes, tsunamii and tidal bores, sunshine, hail, tornados. The problem with the world is it's too interesting.
"My way is the way of not fighting":- the book of Enter the Dragon.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gilesgoat »

Whoever is saying that "the real world is NOT interesting" .. is definitely wasting his/her life ...

That's not perfect .. that maybe is not what we want to be .. that maybe it's full of defects and such .. but also don't confuse the "my life is not interesting" with "the world is not interesting".

Sad reality is "there are far too many things out there in the real world .. many of which can well be out of our reach .. " ..

But so that may happen in VR as well.

In the end of the day "anything really valuable is not too easy to have it", be this "real" or VR or anything else.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Darkflame »

zip accident wrote:
Darkflame wrote:The real world reskinned, and made a darn site more interesting,
There's a lot to be said for AR, but the real world not being interesting isn't one of them.
Your perfectly right there in a worldwide context, but that doesn't mean the real world is always interesting as we are doing are weekly shop, or just about town. At least, not that we see*. Whats "interesting" tends to be defined as whatever is outside the norm for us in our day to day lives. We get used too things no matter how amazing they are.

AR can make the normal more interesting for the same sorts of reasons we play games in general. It gives us something new for little effort, Or it an add a challenge to something with none. Maybe it just provides some nicer rulesets of which we can feel we are making achievements by.
For example, Id much rather exercise if theres some gameification to it - other folk might call that sport - but Id rather mine has lazers or magic wands myself ;)
--
* and AR can help make that which we see more broad.
How much more appreciation could we get for the real world if we could see outside our normal spectrum? (Or at least arbitrarily remap outside it to inside it)

Or get slow motion replay of any bird that flies past us?
Or zoom in? Or exaggerations of subtle movements to let us see them?

Things beyond our ability to see with our natural eyes could be appreciated with sufficient tech to enhance them.

I really hope it happens in my lifetime- I think it will as so many of the complaints are there now.
In short; We only see such a tiny sliver of reality. I am greedy. I want a few more slivers.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by zip accident »

Darkflame wrote:
zip accident wrote:
Darkflame wrote:The real world reskinned, and made a darn site more interesting,
There's a lot to be said for AR, but the real world not being interesting isn't one of them.
Your perfectly right there in a worldwide context, but that doesn't mean the real world is always interesting as we are doing are weekly shop, or just about town.
Towns are boring, because they are safe. Any risks in towns are due to people. Still the world encroaches:

Image

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingfisher-Davi ... _ys_iyr308

Image

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingfisher-Halc ... 31B1YE6YFM
At least, not that we see*. Whats "interesting" tends to be defined as whatever is outside the norm for us in our day to day lives. We get used too things no matter how amazing they are.
Not everyone. Though it is common, and probably everybody feels that way sometimes. If you go right up to a piece of concrete, you can see the tiny little stones in it, The resolution of the world is amazing,
AR can make the normal more interesting for the same sorts of reasons we play games in general. It gives us something new for little effort, Or it an add a challenge to something with none. Maybe it just provides some nicer rulesets of which we can feel we are making achievements by.
For example, Id much rather exercise if theres some gameification to it - other folk might call that sport - but Id rather mine has lazers or magic wands myself ;)
--
* and AR can help make that which we see more broad.
How much more appreciation could we get for the real world if we could see outside our normal spectrum? (Or at least arbitrarily remap outside it to inside it)

Or get slow motion replay of any bird that flies past us?
Or zoom in? Or exaggerations of subtle movements to let us see them?
That's mostly called film, it's a technical trick, you can't really see it your eye isn't fast enough.
Things beyond our ability to see with our natural eyes could be appreciated with sufficient tech to enhance them.

I really hope it happens in my lifetime- I think it will as so many of the complaints are there now.
In short; We only see such a tiny sliver of reality. I am greedy. I want a few more slivers.
Half of that is due to not looking, there's a whole lot more to see if you look.
"My way is the way of not fighting":- the book of Enter the Dragon.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Darkflame »

While we are in general only processing a tiny amount of what we see (by necessity), I think your underestimating just how much we cant see in absolute terms as well.

This sort of tech I find fascinating;
http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2012/amplifyi ... video-0622
That's mostly called film, it's a technical trick, you can't really see it your eye isn't fast enough.
Doesn't really matter what is called. Super slow motion, for example, is a often fascinating and incredible thing to watch on tv - why wouldn't I want that IRL?

Having that automatically, or when I want, is something Id love.
Obviously you'd need a buffer. So its sort of like an "instant reply" too.
-
Meanwhile seeing more of the spectrum can be useful as well as interesting. Looking at infer red would let you check how well your house in insulated, and potentially save money on heating.
Theres some kickstarter projects for cheap IR cameras around this idea, but resolution of non visible light cameras atm is very poor.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gilesgoat »

In case you are missing this WE ARE TRIPPING MEGA HARD !! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by pogo »

New version:
Image
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/o ... prototype/
Image
http://blogs.ft.com/tech-blog/2014/09/oculus-connect/

Doen't look that different, but:
While Oculus has yet to go into details on the tech specs of the new prototype, CEO Brendan Iribe said Crescent Bay's jump in performance over the latest Rift development kit is similar to the jump from last year's original DK1 dev kit to the new DK2. While this isn't the long-desired consumer version of the Rift headset, Iribe said it is closer than ever to being a consumer-ready product.
No specs suggests they aren't shipping or about to ship but the implication is it will be available soon, though the consumer version's still some way off:
But he also stressed that consumers will have to wait some while longer before a retail version of the Oculus Rift is ready – most likely until well into next year.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by MegaZoid. »

Really want a Rift but I'm gonna wait for the costumer version , mainly because i need to save up for bloody great pc I'm gonna need to run it.
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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by Sir_LANs-a-lot »

I don't think the consumer version is going to land until 2016 - They're only starting a public beta mid-way through next year...

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Re: Fool me, this is real good shit ! [Oculus Rift]

Post by gilesgoat »

MegaZoid. wrote:Really want a Rift but I'm gonna wait for the costumer version , mainly because i need to save up for bloody great pc I'm gonna need to run it.
This is VERY good thinking, listen to this : "when you'll be ready/able to, get the most powerful PC/GPU you can get" .. you WILL NEED IT ! ..

[edit] and this is "biased judgment" ( as I am biased in that ) but I dare to say DON'T even THINK about a laptop !
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