New telly shows thread

[VNVObit]

I didn't think much of Gothams first epp. Nothing wrong as such. But just nothing to keep me watching either. No real ongoing intrigue or mystery, and we know how all the characters turn out so...hmm.
Also, aside from the Penguin, the rest of the DC characters felt shoe-horned in. "Have you met future Riddler? Have you met future Ivy?" etc.

Felt more like a run of the mill cop show shoehorned into DC's Gotham that said I like the feel of the set and the very bleak surrounding

also thought

Spoiler: show

Penguin's first attempt at kidnap/ransom funny in a weird way. Just too comic book for the setting - also way too tall

Intros of the various future players seemed overdone for the first episode. The general mood will keep me watching for a while

[Ollie]

I can't stand the current American tv format where the object is to churn out constant serial episodes rather than tell a decent story.

I agree with this; I wish there were more TV serials where enough episodes are written to tell the story, and then it's left at that. As it is, even when the writers have an ending in mind the middle ends up being strung out indefinitely for as long as it's pulling in viewers - and then as often as not, when the viewers eventually get fed up with that, it gets cancelled without enough notice to tell the end of the story properly anyway.

[Darkflame]

Because sometimes many stories can be told with the same characters. Or the scenario is full of enough possibilities.
Star Trek, Stargate, Doctor Who etc.
They key is not to keep the same story going forever. Stop one story, and if the universe or characters have more interesting possibilities, tell another.
Thats the mistake shows like Lost or BSG made - they cling onto the same plot points far too long and just let them build up and up. Both those shows could have closed of more arcs and still had people hocked enough on the characters to keep watching. (and, in the earlier seasons, they did this to some extent).

Farscape did this "arc cycling" very well. If they introduced any plot-point or hock, it was typically solved in half a season.
There was little big "outstanding mysteries" when they were canceled without notice, allowing a pretty complete (if a tad rushed) wrap up in a short miniseries.
---
Another thing is one of my top shows right now is Person of Interest. I dunno what the current season 4s going to be like, but part of the reason its stayed so great so far is they allowed major things in the universe to change. S2 was better then 1, and other then some quibbles at the end, S3 was better then 2.
How long they can keep changing and "building up the stacks" is questionable. But they kept the universe, and thus the show, interesting so far.


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Finally as for Orphan Black, season 2 was great. I'll stick by that. The characters are distinctive and entertaining to watch.
I am not going to say the plots outstanding out anything - its the dark humor and interactions I like. Theres some very laugh out loud moments for me.
I am not sure what you felt was unresolved, but I didn't feel like much was unexplained at the end of season 2. Theres a cliffhanger thats a bit ""quick lets introduce a new element"".
But its not like you dont understand all the players and their motivations.

[Gorecki]

Because sometimes many stories can be told with the same characters. Or the scenario is full of enough possibilities.
Star Trek, Stargate, Doctor Who etc.

No idea about SG but the other two are good examples of shows where each individual episode is a self contained story. They may have a plot threaded through each episode that builds up over time but you can watch almost any random episode and still get complete story.

That used to be how most (all?) American tv dramas worked. Each individual episode had to work as a stand alone drama because they were designed to be syndicated, sold and repeated ad-infintum on just about every network and channel imaginable. The plus side of that is that you could dip in and out whenever you wanted. The downside is that shows tended to work to a particular formula and rarely deviated from it.

It's interesting that you mentioned Farscape. I watched a few series of that and really enjoyed it. Then I missed quite a bit of it and when I sat down to watch a new episode several series in I had absolutely no idea what was going on. Without the context of the series or two that I'd missed it was complete gibberish. I didn't bother going back to it.

I had a similar experience with BSG. I tried watching two episodes of it that just happened to be on tv at the time. No idea what was going on. Couldn't be bothered finding out.


As for Orphan Black I was specifically talking about the resolution to the first series which answered practically none of the questions it had posed.

Spoiler: show

Why were they cloned? Why were they being watched? How many clones were there? How did some of the clones 'escape' the system? What were the corporations motives? What was going on with her 'mother'? What was going on with her 'real' mother? Who were the religious nutters? How did they get hold of the white haired clone?

And probably a load more I've forgotten. The few answers they did provide in the final episodes were swamped with even more cliff-hanger questions. Given that I've just invested 12 hours or so of my life into the series I kind of expected a better, more satisfying pay-off than that.

[Harlequin]

Another thing is one of my top shows right now is Person of Interest. I dunno what the current season 4s going to be like, but part of the reason its stayed so great so far is they allowed major things in the universe to change. S2 was better then 1, and other then some quibbles at the end, S3 was better then 2.
How long they can keep changing and "building up the stacks" is questionable. But they kept the universe, and thus the show, interesting so far.

I am afraid the last episode disappointed me. Not only did the script contain levels of silliness more worthy of The Blacklist, they seemed to entirely misuse the term "brute force attack". I could forgive that in most series but PoI has previously been one of the few series which has more or less consistently used tech terms correctly instead of as technobabble.

Oh, and

Spoiler: show

why is Samaritan putting special markers on people who are threats to those the main team is interested in? Unlike the Machine, Samaritan does not know who these persons are.

[supermario]

The Last Ship - Trashy Michael Bay stuff but quite entertaining.

The Leftovers - more interesting, not read the book or anything. Seems to me more about the effects of the aftermath rather than Why.

[pogo]

Can't come soon enough.

[Governmentyard]

Three episodes into Gotham and I'm really enjoying it. It's got 'case of the week' procedural stuff but the characters are fleshing out well enough, there seems to be what is maybe 'arc' movement happening, of course if everything continues apace there might be backlash in terms of them not really being able to get everyone's suits on anytime soon, and if that doesn't happen can they all really know one another as well as they are bound to sooner or later?

It's interesting. How did Smallville manage it, or did it jump the shark too often? I never watched it and although the series are clearly utterly different, it's the only other example as can think of. Apart from Muppet Babies.

Also Gotham looks amazing. City straight off the pages.

[Harlequin]

Three episodes into Gotham and I'm really enjoying it. It's got 'case of the week' procedural stuff but the characters are fleshing out well enough, there seems to be what is maybe 'arc' movement happening, of course if everything continues apace there might be backlash in terms of them not really being able to get everyone's suits on anytime soon, and if that doesn't happen can they all really know one another as well as they are bound to sooner or later?

It's interesting. How did Smallville manage it, or did it jump the shark too often? I never watched it and although the series are clearly utterly different, it's the only other example as can think of. Apart from Muppet Babies.

Smallville was almost entirely devoid of costumes and the same is also mostly true of Arrow. I first noticed this sort of thing a quarter-century ago in the old The Flash series, wondering why the hero famed for having the most colourful rogues' gallery in comics was only facing criminals dressed in ordinary black clothes. In both of those series (and, it seems, in the new The Flash series, if Weather Wizard in the first episode is anything to go by), major long-time comics villains (or characters with the same names and related abilities or MOs) could appear and be killed off in a single episode. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. does the same, although it took a longer arc to turn a major Marvel character into a villain then kill them off. I do not think Gotham, however, is likely to do this with recognisable comics characters.

Even sans costumes, though, I do wonder how public and influential the major villains and anti-heroes in Gotham can become before the Batman makes his first appearance. I also wonder how Gordon and the GCPD can deal with them and similar threats effectively for years before there is obviously no hope for the city without Batman. Perhaps Bruce going to be helping in some other capacity before turning to vigilantism.

I do like that Renee "The Question-to-be" Montoya appears to be as gay as she is in the comics.

[Governmentyard]

Yeah, she's pretty fucking gay. Are there any sci-fi/fantasy series without gay characters in nowadays, though? It's progressed faster than most genres.

My theory is that Batman will be along presently, but it won't be Wayne, who is a little twerp. Gordon's been preaching the dangers of vigilantism a lot so far, that looks about as telegraphed as most 'twists' in these bigger US shows. We'll see.

[Harlequin]

Few of my other main genre series (Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Supernatural, Doctor Who, Once Upon a Time, etc.) feature homosexual or bisexual regular characters, Arrow might have occasionally been an exception. OUaT might see a return of the Mulan/Sleeping Beauty arc at some point but it has only once been hinted at so far, while Captain Jack was only a DW regular for a few episodes. As for non-regulars, even a low estimate of 5% of people identifying themselves as gay or bisexual suggests quite a few such characters per season in any television series, even with only three guest characters per episode. Genre series might be progressing faster but most still seem quite a way off from reflecting reality, which might be quite ironic in comparison with series which are supposed to be more grounded in everyday reality.

An actual non-Wayne Batman seems very unlikely to me, as that would invalidate Bruce's inspiration, one of the few aspects of his origin story which has always remained constant. Other vigilantes, however, some perhaps even costumed, might be on the horizon.

[Darkflame]

Warehouse13 deserves some credit I think for having a one of the main characters homosexual without making a big deal out of it. Captain Jacks fantastic fun, but we need more things treating it as just normal like race or gender differences. (although its hardly as if tv is perfect there either).
Still, gender ratios have got better in the last decade it seems so eventually other sexual and race ratios should get more realistic. Maybe one day (gasp) a children's cartoon will be allowed to have an openly gay character.

[Harlequin]

Warehouse13 deserves some credit I think for having a one of the main characters homosexual without making a big deal out of it. Captain Jacks fantastic fun, but we need more things treating it as just normal like race or gender differences. (although its hardly as if tv is perfect there either).

Teen Wolf handles its gay characters similarly and, from what I have seen of it, Orphan Black also seems to do well with one of its star characters (who also manages a very believable British accent). I watch the latter series with a friend who is only here around the end and early months of the year, though, so I have much to catch up on. The same viewing hiatus applies to Defiance, although from my viewing so far Stahma Tarr's bisexuality seems rather clumsily opportunistic (and do non-humans count for this purpose anyway?).

I would also like to see if Constantine makes any reference to the eponymous character's bisexuality but, given that he did not even pronounce his own name properly in the leaked pilot and apparently will not even know what a packet of Silk Cut looks like, I am not holding out much hope. I suspect the more unusual aspects of his sexuality will be ignored even more than those of Leonardo in Da Vinci's Demons.

[Misfit]

Noticed Season 2 of Arrow has reached US Netflix (and that Season 3 recently started on TV).

Despite the really cheesy dialogue and everyone being a bit too beautiful but rather wooden I really enjoyed season 1. So I couldn't resist watching 3 episodes back to back last night even though I started way too late.

Enjoying it a lot, although did they have to repeat 100 times "You've changed, shouldn't you be killing everyone?"

[Darkflame]

Just an amendment to my previous comment, theres one exception to the whole "homosexuals don't (openly) exists in children's things"; The film Paranorman had a gay character.