Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[zip accident]

Arrrrgh the bane of my life as someone with corrected vision... You can get higher-refractive index materials to make strong lenses thinner but as a general rule of thumb, the more the material bends the light, the worse its dispersion & hence chromatic aberrations.

That's true; however, the thinner the lens, the less spherical abberation. Which is also bad. Where the best compromise lies depends upon the relative imporatance of the spherical and chromatic abberations.

[Whiteball]

I don't know if I'm just lucky or have something different here, but I have none of the issues a multitude of other people are reporting.

Tearing - No
Juddering - No
Poor performance - No

Sure everything is lower res than normal, but I don't have a problem with reading text and such.

What are your system's specs?

i7 3820 @ 3.60GHz
16GB Ram
Geforce GTX670

[gilesgoat]

DK2 seems to have a quite strong chromatic aberration, this is a property of any lens, it means different wavelengths are bent in different angles.

This in theory could be corrected using "a doublet" which means is a combination of two different lenses one with a positive and one with an identical but negative refraction index so what gets bent
in a way gets re-bent opposite in the other.

But that would mean a quite more expensive and heavier/complex setup.

SW chromatic correction seems to work so reasonably fine this is not so necessary ( yes it IS corrected purely in SW, so the distortion ).

For those wearing glasses, like me, I found out the best way to wear the DK2/1/etc. is to start "from the nose" and you rotate the DK upwards while adjusting/finding 'the right spot' finally you lock in with the strap.

This is 99.90% of cases means unavoidably your lens will get in touch with the DK lens, but it seems to be not a real big problem.

You have also to really learn a bit to look "robot style", i.e. move fully the head, never move the eyes from the center, it takes a little to get used, I think "instinctively" you are also tempted to move the eyes before the head and that causes blur/problems.

About the "better in the center, worse marginal" I think again that's a bit unavoidable.

The thing is anyway IF you have prescription glasses YOU HAVE to wear them using the DK .. and OF COURSE being sure you are using lens cup type 'A' ( neutral ) otherwise all goes bananas.

Also with glasses "minimal deviation from the perfect spot" and you'll loose the settings, again takes a bit of practice to find out the best way to wear it.

Anwyay .. IF you read THE DOCUMENTS supplied with the DK ( and I suppose you MUST have access to the various forums/SDK/docs if you have a DK ) .. A LOT of all this IS EXPLAINED.

So if you have a DK and you ask "how is the chromatic correction, is it cor ... " .. the answer is : READ THE F***ING MANUAL

[zip accident]

I don't know if I'm just lucky or have something different here, but I have none of the issues a multitude of other people are reporting.

Tearing - No
Juddering - No
Poor performance - No

Sure everything is lower res than normal, but I don't have a problem with reading text and such.

What are your system's specs?

i7 3820 @ 3.60GHz
16GB Ram
Geforce GTX670

Well I'm at:

i5 2500
16 gB
HD 6970 (probably soon GTX 980)

So that looks cool:

[t0ne]

My DK2 has arrived - yay!
Got a lot of work on so daren't touch it until tonight - boo!

[gumboot]

[edit] actually, don't they paralyse your eyes at the opticians, to force you to relax so that they can tune things up accurately? Maybe it would take some training to be able to set things up ideally if you can't just defer to a set of figures you were given by a professional.

Do you mean in the sense that they have you looking straight forward at the same point during the majority of a sight test?
They don't do anything medicinally to paralyse any part of me .

As I recall I got something dropped in my eyes which she told me would remove all my accommodation as well as dilating my pupils, and I was told not to drive until I regained my ability to focus properly. Not that it's such a great hazard as you end up focusing at infinity whether you want to or not, so you can still see anything more than a couple of metres away.

[Muttley]

With some tinkering of position of camera, it is getting better, I can on the whole read all text with some effort (either leaning in, or pheripheral vision tricks).

I'll keep fettering away, but we're sorta close now to something usable.

ED in the rift is still bloody amazing regardless of these minor niggles which I may be able to address.

Yeah, some things in ED still need work to play nicely with the rift. The galaxy and system maps for example.

The system map, for example, scared the shit out of me first time I tried it in the rift. Imagine suddenly finding yourself nose deep in the surface of a star.

[gilesgoat]

[edit] actually, don't they paralyse your eyes at the opticians, to force you to relax so that they can tune things up accurately? Maybe it would take some training to be able to set things up ideally if you can't just defer to a set of figures you were given by a professional.

Do you mean in the sense that they have you looking straight forward at the same point during the majority of a sight test?
They don't do anything medicinally to paralyse any part of me .

As I recall I got something dropped in my eyes which she told me would remove all my accommodation as well as dilating my pupils, and I was told not to drive until I regained my ability to focus properly. Not that it's such a great hazard as you end up focusing at infinity whether you want to or not, so you can still see anything more than a couple of metres away.

Did you have what is called "fundus test" where they have to look deep inside your eye ?

In that case they give you those athropine or such drops that make your pupil dilate real big and make you unable to see properly for quite some time.

[rowan]

As I recall I got something dropped in my eyes which she told me would remove all my accommodation as well as dilating my pupils, and I was told not to drive until I regained my ability to focus properly. Not that it's such a great hazard as you end up focusing at infinity whether you want to or not, so you can still see anything more than a couple of metres away.

Hmm, never had that in the 30+ years I've had eye examinations but I don't have any complication beside short sightedness.
Like giles mentions, it sounds like atropine drops but I think that's usually reserved for some "deep examination" if you have eye damage etc.

[gilesgoat]

As I recall I got something dropped in my eyes which she told me would remove all my accommodation as well as dilating my pupils, and I was told not to drive until I regained my ability to focus properly. Not that it's such a great hazard as you end up focusing at infinity whether you want to or not, so you can still see anything more than a couple of metres away.

Hmm, never had that in the 30+ years I've had eye examinations but I don't have any complication beside short sightedness.
Like giles mentions, it sounds like atropine drops but I think that's usually reserved for some "deep examination" if you have eye damage etc.

Depends .. there are many uses of that test .. normally is the check the condition of the optic nerve / retina / blood vessels, sometime it can even be used to get an 'even deeper measure' of your
eyesight when there are doubts about a standard test.

The effects of that thing can last 10 .. 20 mins as well as many hours, depending on the strenght of the dose, last time I had it a couple of years ago they finished the 'normal strength' they were giving anyone ( that had to have that test ) "the strong one" .. for a while it was funny but then it's been quite annoying .. 4 hours or so later I still was unable to see things clearly and every silly light was hurting me

[gumboot]

She did that to me and then pointed a couple of other things in there and pretty much went straight to the correct lens.

It might have been the astigmatism, but really I can't imagine how you could make a reliable measurement when accommodation is so damned hard to control manually. You can have an incorrect lens which you can compensate for in a controlled test, but that doesn't necessarily leave you with the best focal range overall and you need to change it as you lose accommodation as you age.

[Mqark]

The ED main menu is offset to the left a bit but not too much. Others like the settings menu are in the middle.
Have the Rift camera a good few feet away and make sure you 'center' it in ED using, I think the default is, F12

I can read the side text in the cockpit really well, even without leaning in.

Have you created a profile and set you pupil distance in the Rift config util?

I don't know if I'm just lucky or have something different here, but I have none of the issues a multitude of other people are reporting.

Tearing - No
Juddering - No
Poor performance - No

Sure everything is lower res than normal, but I don't have a problem with reading text and such.

I keep moving the camera back, and the text keeps getting better - not quite perfect, but getting there. Unfortunately, due to the layout of my desk I can't put it much further away in normal use, but I'll experiment with it about 4 feet away by moving the camera and my body 90 degrees away from the monitor tonight and see what happens (after all I don't need the monitor while I have the rift on...).

I don't notice tearing, juddering or poor performance either. I'm running an i7 with a GTX 770 (from memory, not sure exactly...)

[t0ne]

How have you got yours configured ?
I'm getting some lagging, the same as a lot of people it seems, in regards to head tracking. I've tried the 'core parking' fix and I reckon it made it worse.
To get it running smooth and still be able to read the text I'm having to drop the res and knock it down to the mid graphics setting. i7 4770k and GTX780.

[techno12]

Had mine for a couple of weeks now.

Was really interesting the other day when I let a friend (another old-skool coder like me) try it out for the first time. He was initially wowed by the default 'desk' test scene. Also Loved the sickly Lava demo. An hour later he was still loving it (Uncharted, Wildlands, Vanguard etc), thinking about what we could maybe collaborate on perhaps, then I let him try Tuscany and that was it - he felt nauseous all of a sudden and was like that the rest of the evening (down the pub!)

I put it down to VR fatigue or something.

I naturally get nauseous quickly, so feel sick on rollercoasters, the "magic swing" rides at fairgrounds (where you sit on a bench and the room rotates around you), big-screen 'experiences' (like those domes you got where you'd lie on the ground and look up at a huge projection onto the dome screen of a rollercoaster etc)

I expect to feel nauseous, but was surprised when he did, as he said he never gets sick. We talked about it in the pub for ages about how there's a hurdle to overcome - the "end punter must not feel sick" hurdle...

[gilesgoat]

Had mine for a couple of weeks now.

Was really interesting the other day when I let a friend (another old-skool coder like me) try it out for the first time. He was initially wowed by the default 'desk' test scene. Also Loved the sickly Lava demo. An hour later he was still loving it (Uncharted, Wildlands, Vanguard etc), thinking about what we could maybe collaborate on perhaps, then I let him try Tuscany and that was it - he felt nauseous all of a sudden and was like that the rest of the evening (down the pub!)

I put it down to VR fatigue or something.

I naturally get nauseous quickly, so feel sick on rollercoasters, the "magic swing" rides at fairgrounds (where you sit on a bench and the room rotates around you), big-screen 'experiences' (like those domes you got where you'd lie on the ground and look up at a huge projection onto the dome screen of a rollercoaster etc)

I expect to feel nauseous, but was surprised when he did, as he said he never gets sick. We talked about it in the pub for ages about how there's a hurdle to overcome - the "end punter must not feel sick" hurdle...

Tuscany demo is THE WORST of all demo that precisely shows you HOW TO GET SIMULATION SICKNESS, it's the "ultimate proof" that you CANNOT "disconnect" the motion from the vision.

How to overcome ? In that case "the simple solution" is DO NOT LEAVE CAMERA/MOTION disconnected from user's sight and expected movement, you should have ONE "move key" that when you push it makes you move in the same direction where you are look at, in that case the difference would be quite a thing.

The other things is to move more slowly.

One thing I saw in some "recent experiments" also but that's a "double side sword", can work and can work not is that "if you are in a totally abstract space with no reference points" and you move all around you feel less sick.

I SUPPOSE in that case it's like "really your mind does not know exactly what to expect and in that case maybe 'ok anything works' because you brain is fooled and does not know what should happen".

I tried MANY times that "Cave exploration game" .. gives me sickness, SERIOUS SICKNESS, in 10 mins or so, once I was almost running to the loo to puke all my guts out as I tried "no maybe I'll get used to it" .. I did not ..

Instead yesterday I tried a game where you jump off buildings and you float around, the thing is "it acts exactly as you expect it would" and strangely enough does NOT make you sick.

Not even the slightest feeling of nausea which I admit to me was totally unexpected.

But no VR is the "total proof" that "we still need a new science to design VR FPS totally nausea free" you WILL NOT take an existent FPS and put it into VR as it is