Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[Dio]

As for frame rate/refresh stuff, I remeber reading or hearing that apparently really low, like 3 or 4 fps does not induce the sickness feelings either.
As far as the programming side goes I can only guess at this point as I'm only just starting my DK2 dev.

One of Oculus' observations is that almost all the literature on VR is dubiously valuable because it's not about VR, it's about Really Shitty VR, and lots of the conclusions are different.

[gilesgoat]

I had one brief play on a DK1 and I was definitely woozy for an hour afterwards.

I'm onsite with one of the big VR games next week, be interesting to see how that looks.

Frustratingly, I'm also in Wales next weekend but on a tight schedule because we couldn't take the kids out of school Friday or Monday, so there's no chance I can find the four hours I would need to get from the Rhondda over to west wales.

What a pity, also Rhondda is really far away, 'the other opposite site of Wales', unfortunately getting here is not really a walk in the park .. maybe if sometime you are around London let us know.

[Dio]

Yeah, I'll work it out. I can make it out there if we have a long weekend there, I'd come across Sunday afternoon or something, but with a six hour drive home on Sunday there just isn't time to slot something in, and at the moment there's no option of pulling the kids out of school for Mondays.

[gilesgoat]

Yeah, I'll work it out. I can make it out there if we have a long weekend there, I'd come across Sunday afternoon or something, but with a six hour drive home on Sunday there just isn't time to slot something in, and at the moment there's no option of pulling the kids out of school for Mondays.

Tell the school they need some extra day to go somewhere else to learn something else they can't teach there

[Dio]

Don't work like that any more .

[Harlequin]

Hmmm... Yak and I played around with VR systems around 1990 and never experienced any sickness that I recall despite the low resolutions and refresh rates. Perhaps it was because the environments had low polygon counts and so our brains did not try to interpret them as real.

[Yak]

I recall that early VR being cool in a sense of "hey this is an Amiga game I can control the camera with my head" but never having close to the sense of "I can look around, there is no blur, there are no framerate issues, visually it feels like I am actually there" that you get from modern VR. It never felt close enough to reality to conflict with other senses. I suspect some of the nausea arises from the conflict between what is visually true for you and what your proprioception is telling you. I think part of the solution is to have motions commanded at least in part by the head, so there is some visceral commonality between expected visual and bodily sensations.

[gilesgoat]

Don't work like that any more .

Hum .. no expert of UK education system/procedures .. but seriously you can't tell me you simply can't take your boys off the school for X days "anytime you want ?".

In Italy it works ( unless they changed it I don't know ) a bit like asking a "work permit" you say "I have family reasons I need my boys for X days out" .. normally unless you are doing it too frequently/strangely none can say "no you can't take the boys out of school".

NOT that I am forcing you to do that of course no But stucks me that "you can't do it because the school says NO", this is really something to me unheard of

But you know in Italy .. they are just more than happy to have LESS people to deal with rather than more .. give them an 'excuse' to have less students in a room to teach for the better they go

[Dio]

No, you can be fined and / or prosecuted for pulling kids out of school without good reason. The last used to be reasonably liberally applied, but many schools now will take action for anything but the strongest of reasons.

I generally agree with the rule for secondary schools, where you're teaching to a tight curriculum and something missed today might not be well covered tomorrow, but I think it is a little silly at primary school when you're just building generic learning skills.

[Muttley]

Don't work like that any more .

Hum .. no expert of UK education system/procedures .. but seriously you can't tell me you simply can't take your boys off the school for X days "anytime you want ?".

Nope. You get fined if you do that these days.

[gilesgoat]

No, you can be fined and / or prosecuted for pulling kids out of school without good reason. The last used to be reasonably liberally applied, but many schools now will take action for anything but the strongest of reasons.

I generally agree with the rule for secondary schools, where you're teaching to a tight curriculum and something missed today might not be well covered tomorrow, but I think it is a little silly at primary school when you're just building generic learning skills.

Wow .. times are certainly changed .. and certainly much different than Italy ..

It does not work like that in Italy, unless of course you'd be doing it "in a really too suspicious/strange way" .. I mean a justification like "I really need to take a family trip for family business at X" is ok, it's really "nothing special" the school can't even argue with you.

I am NO "super legal expert" but I suppose, as the Italian law works, if you ASK for something like that saying "that you have need for" the school can't say no, otherwise that could be turned into "kidnapping" they can't hold your guys in the school "because they don't want to let them out".

It's a bit based on common sense as well, sure no one wants to loose lessons but sure you can't even say "no you can't take your kids out now because I say so".

Also apart from SOME type of police no one has authority to enforce you anything let alone give you a fine - which then would involve justify how you collected that money, where did it go,
pay taxes on it, have to keep a strict accounting on it and, above all, any of those fines could open a who-know-how-many-years-long-court-case with you complaining about the fine ( and you could win ) and such.

I WILL ask, to my uncle ( and I have a friend too that teaches in another school ) , how is going in Italy right NOW, to have a more up to date information.

But I am quite sure that "no one can give you a fine" .. TWO things in Italy "you don't touch easily" .. one is THE MUM, second is THE WALLET ..

You want me TO PAY YOU WHAT ??? YOU ARE INSANE !!! NO ONE pays anything in Italy straight on .. you have to fight to death to get that money out

Actually 'the standard goes' .. "you want 100" ? ... "I'll give 1 now ( after 2 weeks of battling ) .. and maybe 2 'tomorrow' .. the remaining 97 well .. not sure you'll ever see them" ..

Going to prison ? In Italy ? IMPOSSIBLE .. they are throwing people out of prisons cause they are too full and no one has the money to run them any more, even if you kill someone is hard you'll get prison time for too long, you cost too much to the government and people are not willing to pay taxes for you any more

It really works like that ..

[gilesgoat]

@Dio : ask one of your Italian colleagues ( I think you have one ) about how it works in Italy about business and payments and/or if he has a vague idea about "how people pay - better to say NOT pay - for things in Italy" ..

If you are a "normal person" you go in a shop you buy a graphic card you pay in cash and/or something - hopefully covered ..

BUT .. if you a COMPANY buying N graphics cards .. ha .. you emit an invoice, you give me the graphic cards NOW - ALL of them - or I CANNOT release you an invoice then and only then once you gave me an invoice I can proceed with payment .. but then normally "payment in 3 or 6 months time" .. you don't do so, you won't sell anything ..

.. the problems start after 6 months .. when 6 months later I'll start to tell you "sorry I don't have all the money to pay you for, would you get just a piece for now ?".

Then the chase for the remaining money starts ...

... try to make business in Italy and see .. you must be prepared to have LOT of patience and "inside knowledge" and "friends of friends" ..

[Dio]

@Dio : ask one of your Italian colleagues ( I think you have one ) about how it works in Italy about business and payments and/or if he has a vague idea about "how people pay - better to say NOT pay - for things in Italy" ..

Our chief architect for DX11 is Italian, we've had some conversations along those lines. I think he finds California relatively sane .

[Darkflame]

Oculus Rift remake of desert bus;
http://www.desertbusvr.com

[SuperMappy]