Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[gilesgoat]

They've also employed a lot of very good AAA devs. It could be they just want the realtime mad skills of those guys but I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one go at something spectacular and expensive. I mean why else would they hired IDs creative director and 343s art director.

Still think it's most likely to be a new Second Life/Playstation Home. In fact if they're investing a lot in it that seems even more likely. Doing just another social experiment is pointless even for FB, but really investing in it so it has the production values of a AAA game and all of a sudden it becomes an asset. Especially as FB's core products are being attacked on all sides by messaging apps, photo apps, blogging platforms.

Biggest unknown is Sony's plans. Their headset was shown earlier this year pre-E3 which would normally mean it would be in shops for Christmas, but there's still no sign of it. I don't know if the technology's not ready or if they've seen the problems MS had with Kinect and want to keep the PS4 a pure traditional game machine for now.

Just keep making things up eh?

I've personally been in touch quite a few times with the guys working on Morpheus, trust me they are working A LOT on it.

Just "a little ago" I asked if there were news about things and they only told me "there's LOT going on but cannot tell you anything about it yet".

From the little I knew/everybody(?) knew I don't think it ever been plans of Sony to release Morpheus for 2014 .. in fact I don't think they ever hinted or said anything like that.

All is know/certain is that "they want to get it absolutely right" and they don't want to put something out in the market that they feel "it's not yet as they feel it should be", this is a thing where "you can't do mistakes" .. do it right ok, do it wrong .. all is fucked up and you lost everything.

Morpheus and Kinect are two things lights years different with different problems.

I am quite sure that "with all they invested so far" I don't think they are simply going to drop the ball on VR in fact they are still investing "more" into it because they are still working on it.

I think we could probably say pogo that "all the money you earned in your life so far is probably a fraction of what they invested/are investing in VR" so I don't think they are going to drop it that easily now

[Soluzar]

Has anyone started working on light synths or other things like it? I've found a few things, but nothing too exciting. I'd love to have access to the kind of thing Jeff has been working on most of his career, only in the Rift.

Imagine, you cue up a playlist, put on the Rift, settle into your favourite chair and you're surrounded by music... I could spend whole days like that.

[pogo]

From the little I knew/everybody(?) knew I don't think it ever been plans of Sony to release Morpheus for 2014 .. in fact I don't think they ever hinted or said anything like that.

The hint was the fact they showed it in early 2014. Not just showed to a few developers, or showed clearly early prototype hardware, but showed what looks like a final product at consumer shows and on primetime TV. Companies only usually do that if they plan to release the same year. For many people that's the point of E3 and it's otherwise odd date, to get people interest in products due to ship by Christmas.

Even showing hardware eight to nine months in advance is exceptional. Many firms give little to no notice of new products. Apple in particular first show many of their products days before they go on general release. Phones and PC hardware are often announced only shortly before being shipped to stores. The reason is announce it too far in advance and people forget and lose interest.

At least with Rift many people have it, there are things you can do with it now (OK, there's Elite), there's a new version out soon and the consumer version in a few months. All this is creating a buzz and maintaining interest, which will only build as more developers show and talk about what they're doing with it. But Project Morpheus? Try going e.g. here

http://blog.us.playstation.com/category/ps4/

and finding out about it. There's a helpful tag list but it's not listed, and I can't see anywhere else to find out about it. There have been occasional sightings of it since March but it's hardly building up a buzz of interest.

[pogo]

Found this while writing the above but thought it deserved a separate post. Free to read if you register:

Sony executive heralds a revolution in virtual reality

In an interview ahead of an event this week to mark the 20th anniversary of the PlayStation’s launch, Shawn Layden, chief executive of Sony Computer Entertainment America, said: “In a couple of years from now, we are going to see virtual reality changing the entire gaming experience.”
[...]
Mr Layden said Sony would bring its VR device to market “not only when we have the technology and the production costs and the hardware issues completely worked out but also when we have the right experience”, in terms of games and content.
As well as trying to solve technical problems around input devices and displays that do not cause nausea among users, Sony – like other VR investors – is still looking for a “killer app” for the device.
“It’s not just confined to gaming,” Mr Layden suggested. Sony has been approached by more than 100 non-gaming companies about creating new content and experiences for virtual reality, from travel and education to watching live sports via the immersive headsets.
But he added: “We have to concentrate on delivering this VR experience in a meaningful and attractive way in the gaming world first. Without success in that realm, it would be difficult to start to branch off.”

Which sounds like it won't be any time soon 'in a couple of years' and 'still looking for a "killer app"'. Do read the whole thing though which covers a lot more ground.

[Jamesac]

From the little I knew/everybody(?) knew I don't think it ever been plans of Sony to release Morpheus for 2014 .. in fact I don't think they ever hinted or said anything like that.

The hint was the fact they showed it in early 2014. Not just showed to a few developers, or showed clearly early prototype hardware, but showed what looks like a final product at consumer shows and on primetime TV. Companies only usually do that if they plan to release the same year. For many people that's the point of E3 and it's otherwise odd date, to get people interest in products due to ship by Christmas.

Sorry, but that didn't actually happen. I played on Morpheus at E3. It was obviously not going to be released this year, period. That was never going to happen, Sony never said it was going to happen, and you're going to have to admit that a 2014 release was an assumption made on nonexistent data. The E3 Morpheus was not a 2014 product, at all.

[gilesgoat]

Sony is SO and I mean *SO* secretive about Morpheus plans and what they are doing/plan to do with it you would NOT believe how much, in fact all the data around it and what is known is very very controlled information coming out "with an eyedropper".

Said that I simply mean "only them know really what's going on" and probably only a very few of them.

Said that which means "I know very little to nothing about their plans" I too could say "as a personal opinion/feeling" "I wish Sony would move a bit faster and show me 'more' about what's going on".

I mean true.dat there are two completely different worlds and probably with two completely different set of resources but from one side I have Oculus where they say "we are going to do this, we are going to do that" .. and they do, actually it's been quite a few times I said "I really don't know how the heck they can do all those improvements in such a really short time" and I can't wait to see this new prototype that seems to be "mental".

Now I do hope that "the next thing" I am going to see from Sony, whatever/anytime it will be ( hopefully not too late in time ) is "exceptional" because now the "competition" is REALLY HARD.

I've seen this .. I've seen that .. now Oculus is about to come out with "that new thing" that IF it is as it claims it should be is "out of this world" .. the point is at this point I expect the next Morpheus thing to be "no less" actually should be better.

But if it isn't ... what should I think then ? "Yeah but no yeah" ?

DK2 is still blowing my mind off .. Gear VR "in its thing like this is never going to work but it does" it's another mind blowing thing in its own way.

Now DK2 to me is kinda - at the moment - the "gold standard" about "how VR should be" I mean "no less than this" that for me is "the reference point where to compare anything else to".

I am sure there's a fuck load of work going on Morpheus and I am sure they probably feel quite a bit "the pressure of other things coming out" as well .. the want to get it really right.

About "killer app" and such .. again .. "I don't really know what they are doing" I mean "there could be 500 people working on something I can guarantee you NOBODY is going to know until
they want it to be known".

But said that maybe "again" I could too say "a bit" .. "wish maybe someone could be bit more audacious".

Reality is "nobody know what/when/how/if/in what way/how much" the VR market is going to be .. of .. if it's ever going to be one.

I say/think "potentially there should be" and "you have to make one" .. "make it and people will come" things like those.

But since I saw DK2 .. "I am sold on VR" .. don't know what's going to be but "I am not going to leave the DK2 even if I could be the only one in the world using it" .. it's too much of a too good device that works

TxK on DK2 is pretty close for me to say "this is all I ever wanted, it's too fucking awesome"

[Whiteball]

I've been mucking about with the DK2 and virtual desktop from http://www.vrdesktop.net/.
It works surprising well once you find a nice bunch of settings that suit your needs.

Better yet, is the backdrop options which lets you have a virtual cinema. I've run this and then RetroArch to play my Mame games on a giant screen.

Lovely stuff. Off to try a few different emulators now...

[Deckard]

I've been mucking about with the DK2 and virtual desktop from http://www.vrdesktop.net/.
It works surprising well once you find a nice bunch of settings that suit your needs.

Better yet, is the backdrop options which lets you have a virtual cinema. I've run this and then RetroArch to play my Mame games on a giant screen.

Lovely stuff. Off to try a few different emulators now...

This isn't helping with my "don't but any more stuff before Xmas at all" promise

[arcaic]

I'm probably missing the point, not having a DKx of any form or having tried any VR stuff, but what's the big deal. Does it just make it feel like you have a really big screen?

Why not just make the entire virtual world around you one big screen with icons and app windows stuck wherever you want? Probably easy to say and harder to do but I thought it would be cool to have my dev stuff in front of me and I just look to the right to see my video and over to the left for a spreadsheet etc... rather than still have all that stuff on one 'desktop' in the virtual world.

Andy

[zip accident]

One sort of thing I came across recently were these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FocusSpecs-Adju ... adjustable

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eyejusters-Adju ... K4WB4EW3QN

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Emergensee-Vari ... K4WB4EW3QN

It'a obviously in a very early stage and probably not working to the best it can yet, but if a version of an improved type could be built into the Oculus, that would seem to be able to sort it out for spectacle wearers.

[pogo]

But many people with glasses need more than just the ability to adjust the focal length. Many have astigmatism, which requires more complicated correction via a very precise prescription. All VR headsets have to let people wear their own glasses or they'll be excluding a large number of people.

[Whiteball]

I wear my glasses with the DK2 no problem.

[gilesgoat]

I do have astigmatism too and that IS A PROBLEM, BUT with "lens cups 'A' " ( neutral ) and DK2 and wearing YOUR OWN GLASSES is not a problem.

Is not "a big problem".

Ok true.dat it takes a bit of "finding a correct spot" and UNAVOIDALBLY your lens MAY end up in touching DIRECTLY the DK2 lenses as well, you cannot avoid it.

However, once you set up correctly "it works".

True.dat "perfect solution" would be to have "custom made lenses" to fit yours, could be done in theory but probably economically "unpractical".

This problem anyway is going to be/happen with ANY VR SYSTEM, there's "no easy way" ( better to say "impossible way" ) to sort it out other than using "custom lenses" or maybe try to adjust a very little something so "your own lenses won't touch the surface of the others".

[gilesgoat]

One sort of thing I came across recently were these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FocusSpecs-Adju ... adjustable

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eyejusters-Adju ... K4WB4EW3QN

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Emergensee-Vari ... K4WB4EW3QN

It'a obviously in a very early stage and probably not working to the best it can yet, but if a version of an improved type could be built into the Oculus, that would seem to be able to sort it out for spectacle wearers.

.. ridicolous .. for VR you need a "simper lens", progressive lenses and stuff like that won't work ..

Astigmatism is the problem, unless you are super lucky you have "almost perfect eyes" most people especially with myopia have astigmatism as well which means the focus in the x and y planes is different which means the eye is not a perfect sphere but more like an ellipsoid, given enough time, by age, most people with myopia will get a certain degree of astigmatism as well, estimated 30% of world population has some degree of astigmatism.

[edit] also astigmatism is not so simple, in far too many cases you have an "angle" as well, which means your "ellipsoid" is also rotated in the Z axis .. fundamentally a "perfectly symmetrical spherical eye" is a rare condition, certainly lot of people with sight problems are not in that condition.

[edit2] IF once the "DK3" or final version "is good enough as I think it's going to be" someone would tell me "hey, would you spend 100 quids more to have some custom lenses so you won't need glasses ?" .. I would say "SURE, HERE THEY ARE !" .. where's the problem ? .. There's the solution to no glasses .. make it cost "not too stupid" and I can't see "why not" ....

[pogo]

Thanks Giles. I provided a link instead of trying to explain it. Most who have it (including me) understand it well enough, everyone else it's a lesson in optics.

Probably one day this will be solved problem; they already have cameras that capture at multiple depths of field, so effectively eliminate focus. Maybe in five years you dial the three numbers of your glasses prescription (three for each eye that is) into your VR device and it outputs visuals that match your eyesight. Maybe in ten years when you are buying glasses theres an option to include a computer – a descent of Google Glass perhaps – which produces aspherically adjusted output for each eye, including VR, as well as video, text. A phone in your prescription glasses effectively.

But not now and not in Rift (and Sony's device) unless they're prepared to delay for a very long time. It will have to work with users' glasses.