Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[Little stoned kiwi]

I would agree though it’s very much an individual experience. It doesn’t matter what you read, that does’t tell you how it will work for you.

That's right. What's with all the negativity and criticism before you try it though?

[pogo]

Look .. IN SUPER SHORT the SAD reality IS "there's NO WAY to understand VR without trying it BY YOURSELF FIRST HAND" .. you really cannot describe the experience in real terms and it really is INDIVIDUAL so "what works for one won't work for you" and such.

You can understand anything without experiencing it. I understand space travel, though I’ve yet to enjoy it myself. And I understand the science of VR just as well. Similarly anyone who has experienced it can describe it, though how well they do depends on their writing and descriptive skills. Of course people are reluctant to do so now as it’s still an early test version, still with limited availability. We should see more and better reports on it when it’s finished and on sale.

What is true is you can’t tell how well it works for you without trying it. This means that people need to be able to try it before they buy. This will be easier for Sony who have their own stores as well as a presence in game retailers with the PS4. It will be harder for Oculus who will have to invest heavily in getting it in stores, shopping centres where people can try it.

[gravy]

Apparently Oculus bought some camera tech so it's likely there is another HW rev after this latest version shown at CES.

Where's our TxK DK2 video?

I did one of the pause mode with OBS but it didn't capture well



Stereo and non stereoscopic versions there

[gravy]

I would agree though it’s very much an individual experience. It doesn’t matter what you read, that does’t tell you how it will work for you.

That's right. What's with all the negativity and criticism before you try it though?

Pogo's start position (for whatever reason) is Facebook can't do games, it'll probably make you sick and only Sony are able to sell this stuff to consumers.

Everything else are poorly constructed post rationalisations. I mean why else would you knock out a few paragraphs criticising a IR sensor scheme the HW doesn't even use when it'd take a couple of minutes looking at the publicly available information about how it actually works? He didn't even seem to know the Gear VR is effectively Oculus' first consumer device.

Not sure why pogo has that as a start position though and gleefully shitting it into a thread with people lucky enough to have a lot of access to this new tech.

[Dio]

The comparison with the Wiimote is interesting. It shines LEDs at the Wiimote, and has the advantage that (presumably) you set them above the TV then point the Wiimote at the TV, or at least can see the TV so ensure there's a line of sight. You can’t see the camera with the Rift on.

But surely it's obvious that completely free roaming in VR is going to cause injury. You have to be in a controlled volume of space to solve that, so having the same requirements on the tracking solution is not an additional limitation.

[pogo]

Pogo's start position (for whatever reason) is Facebook can't do games, it'll probably make you sick and only Sony are able to sell this stuff to consumers.

You forgot the long time it’s taking both Sony and Oculus to ship their products. And on sickness it’s not just me that’s saying it it’s Samsung:

http://arstechnica.com/gear-vr-product-use-warnings/

Most notably:
Children under 13 should not use it, older children should not use it unsupervised,
“...symptoms of virtual reality exposure can persist and become more apparent hours after use.”
“Do not drive, operate machinery ... until you have fully recovered from any symptoms.”
“Take at least a 10 to 15 minute break every 30 minutes...”


I certainly have a healthy scepticism of the devices. Some people are promoting them not just for games but for all sorts of content, such as 3D movies. But like 3D TV I don’t see many consumers going for that, especially not if you can only use them for short periods. Otherwise they are just expensive gaming peripherals.

[snaff]

Pogo's start position (for whatever reason) is Facebook can't do games, it'll probably make you sick and only Sony are able to sell this stuff to consumers.

You forgot the long time it’s taking both Sony and Oculus to ship their products. And on sickness it’s not just me that’s saying it it’s Samsung:

http://arstechnica.com/gear-vr-product-use-warnings/

Most notably:
Children under 13 should not use it, older children should not use it unsupervised,
“...symptoms of virtual reality exposure can persist and become more apparent hours after use.”
“Do not drive, operate machinery ... until you have fully recovered from any symptoms.”
“Take at least a 10 to 15 minute break every 30 minutes...”


I certainly have a healthy scepticism of the devices. Some people are promoting them not just for games but for all sorts of content, such as 3D movies. But like 3D TV I don’t see many consumers going for that, especially not if you can only use them for short periods. Otherwise they are just expensive gaming peripherals.

Sounds a similar experience to alcohol and that is popular enough.

[gilesgoat]

Pogo's start position (for whatever reason) is Facebook can't do games, it'll probably make you sick and only Sony are able to sell this stuff to consumers.

You forgot the long time it’s taking both Sony and Oculus to ship their products. And on sickness it’s not just me that’s saying it it’s Samsung:

http://arstechnica.com/gear-vr-product-use-warnings/

Most notably:
Children under 13 should not use it, older children should not use it unsupervised,
“...symptoms of virtual reality exposure can persist and become more apparent hours after use.”
“Do not drive, operate machinery ... until you have fully recovered from any symptoms.”
“Take at least a 10 to 15 minute break every 30 minutes...”


I certainly have a healthy scepticism of the devices. Some people are promoting them not just for games but for all sorts of content, such as 3D movies. But like 3D TV I don’t see many consumers going for that, especially not if you can only use them for short periods. Otherwise they are just expensive gaming peripherals.

Look .. "you can't have it all" all that is NORMAL ..

Would be like to drink "a few more glasses" and then complain you are drunk.

Children under 13 should not use things like those because the visual system is still under growth/etc. so of course "you don't want them to maybe use something that could interfere a bit with the process", would be bit like to ask to a children "please move that 20 kg bag" .. of course an adult can do it no problems.

Said that my niece 10 years old wanted to have a go at the Gear VR she LOVED it She was very fond of Minorescue VR

I had really cannot count how many people ( should have kept a record ? ) including some autistic guys and guys with disabilities trying TxK VR on the DK2 at Manchester, I "properly" explained
them "how to use and what to expect" and "and in case you have any problem just tell me we can stop any moment" honestly I can't remember ONE person saying "oh I can't enjoy this" or
"I feel sick" ..

Some said "yeah it certainly feels a bit strange/different" but at least TxK seems gave everyone a genuine experience ... and I remember perfectly that autistic guy wanting to try it a few more
time, and we were "ready in case anything happens" he had a really good time and was really happy.

I think one of the "best satisfaction moments" about VR been a guy that tried Minorescue VR, he had some disabilities he could not use well hands but he was so very good in controlling the
ship with his head he literally said almost in tears "one of the best moments he had in his life" he LOVED the controls "not requiring hands".

Said all this .. TRUE.DAT I too had experienced some VR "so badly made" and/or let's say "maybe not so well tested" that was capable to make me SICK in less
than 5 mins .. and TRUE.DAT again when you get that sickenss "is with your for HOURS" .. it's not like "ok take it out, 30 seconds later I am fine" not it's 2 hours later I am still don't give me food
my stomach is feeling crap.

Funny enough that seems to "normally happen" with "stuff you would not think immediately it would do so" .. or in other words FORGET about making a FPS where you move all around with
your camera running at speed like a loon there and there ..

That's the best way to make you vomit stuff around .. however .. I think "most VR got this message" it's CLEAR you CANNOT do a thing like that.

Said that, one of THE BEST VR things I've seen been that "dungeon game" made by OR itself I think on the Gear .. "just fucking lovely" and been playing that for well over 30 mins and
"it just goes FINE" ..

Only thing could be said after more 30 mins in VR "coming back to real world" can be "a bit shocking" for 5 mins One moment you are in a dungeon with an axe and magic shooting
things, the next moment you are in your DULL room

Well also "common sense" when you are 'so totally immersed' bit of care is necessary ... VR gives you "immersion" .. the better it is, the more immersive it is you actually want/look for
"total immersion".

This sure comes "at a little price" .. imagine you are having a fantastic dream and all in a sudden abruptly someone would wake you up .. you don't want it to be "abrupt" nor maybe
"being in a dream too long" .. but that's just "common sense".

Anyway it's also a matter of "use and learning how/getting use to it" .. the more you use that stuff the more "simpler and natural" it feels, it's not really "all that bad" or "all that scary".

But yes "a high quality standard" is necessary "you don't do shit VR OR shit VR can be really a VERY SHIT EXPERIENCE" in all senses ..

[Dio]

Children under 13 should not use it, older children should not use it unsupervised

There was an news item in New Scientist last month where they invesigated age restrictions on 3D and couldn't find any evidence in favour of it at all, certainly not at 13. However, it's wise to be careful about it until we know more about high-quality VR (given that currently we know very little about it).

I've let both my kids have a quick look at Minecraft through it.

[gravy]

I certainly have a healthy scepticism of the devices. Some people are promoting them not just for games but for all sorts of content, such as 3D movies. But like 3D TV I don’t see many consumers going for that, especially not if you can only use them for short periods. Otherwise they are just expensive gaming peripherals.

"Just"

I think Kinect took in around half a billion end user revenue despite being pretty awful. Similarly the original Wii's 100m units kicked into the mainstream on the mostly on basis of "Just" having a unique (but ultimately pretty useless) peripheral attached.

Whether this becomes a new display technology my mum uses or stays with a smaller (though potentially profitable) niche is debatable. Everyone knows that, OR included. And yeah, interesting to talk about.

What isn't interesting is ill informed nonsense being spouted to back up a gut reaction. You're not adding much new here.

[gravy]

Children under 13 should not use it, older children should not use it unsupervised

There was an news item in New Scientist last month where they invesigated age restrictions on 3D and couldn't find any evidence in favour of it at all, certainly not at 13. However, it's wise to be careful about it until we know more about high-quality VR (given that currently we know very little about it).

I've let both my kids have a quick look at Minecraft through it.

Well yeah. And to be fair this isn't about REAL RISKS but more a comment on big organisations desires to protect against legal liability.

Nintendo still don't advise young kids using the 3DS. There's no real evidence that it does them harm, the warnings don't damage sales but they do protect against agressive lawsuits.

This is bullshit though, it's all common sense

[gumboot]

I think it takes years of meta analysis of damage already done to find meaningful evidence of slight effects.

I'd guess that it's not a big deal in normal circumstances but the negligent parent who leaves their child with the thing 16 hours a day may see developmental issues that no VR vendor wants to face. Those children were likely to see developmental issues anyway, but it's hard to not look at the thing that consumed the greatest part of their childhood.


Shit, sometimes I think just growing up in a city has caused some of my peers "developmental issues" as they seem to have such poor low-level hearing.


[edit] Totally second-hand, by the way, and I have no idea about the specifics or the quality of the work or the origin or any of that, and I probably don't remember it properly either, but I'll repeat it anyway just for sport: I've heard of one such study that suggests that the 12-16 year olds of not-so-long ago have been failing to take real physical risks with their own real physical bodies like previous generations did. Consequently rather than associating going way too fast on their push-bikes with crashing into ditches and cutting their leg wide open like they're supposed to have done, they now associate going way too fast in video games with having to repeat the level[*]; and that this is reflected in their risk assessment skills as adults.

[*] back in my day you had to repeat all the levels!

[gravy]

If they've got a Gear VR it'll be the phone you use with it that's probably have the biggest effect on how their minds are forming.

That's another whole conversation

[Dio]

Shit, sometimes I think just growing up in a city has caused some of my peers "developmental issues" as they seem to have such poor low-level hearing.

Too many times without hearing protection in nightclubs and incautious use of headphones is much more likely to be a problem. The state of most people's high-frequency hearing is shocking, and worst of all it can cause serious damage to future generations as people set up sound systems for people with badly damaged hearing in a more damaging mode.

[Darkflame]

Nintendo still don't advise young kids using the 3DS. There's no real evidence that it does them harm, the warnings don't damage sales but they do protect against agressive lawsuits.

Dont half get annoying though. Nintendo seems to have half a dozen warnings on each of their games these days.