Politics Thread!

[venusian]

Tories, on the other hand, have given us one of these, poor kid:

That is quite astonishing.

[pogo]

That's the Greens for you - decent at discussing ideas for improving the world, crap at selling them via media channels.

To be fair to them it happens to all parties when their idealistic vision of how to fix things collides with the realities of actually running things.

What’s different this time around is everyone is expecting a hung parliament, so everyone is expecting a government will include at least one of UKIP, the Lib Dems, the SNP and Greens. So people are asking questions about their policies, not just what they believe in. They need to be ready for that.

[(o)(o)]

That's the Greens for you - decent at discussing ideas for improving the world, crap at selling them via media channels.

To be fair to them it happens to all parties when their idealistic vision of how to fix things collides with the realities of actually running things.

Not with the Tories.

They don't get flustered. Because they are not human.

There is something odd about persons who RAM ideologically driven agenda down everyones throats with a complete disregard for reality.

Lying. That's a popular Tory alternative to getting flustered.

Or misdirection, or obfuscation.

[venusian]

Lying. That's a popular Tory alternative to getting flustered.
Or misdirection, or obfuscation.

That's applies to pretty much every politician, of every party, because the alternative is to appear incompetent or uncertain which is Not Allowed. See also, changing one's mind in the light of new evidence (a.k.a. a shocking policy U-turn).

The same is also true of pretty much anybody putting forward and ideological position to a dubious audience but I guess you already know that.

[(o)(o)]

Lying. That's a popular Tory alternative to getting flustered.
Or misdirection, or obfuscation.

That's applies to pretty much every politician, of every party, because the alternative is to appear incompetent or uncertain which is Not Allowed. See also, changing one's mind in the light of new evidence (a.k.a. a shocking policy U-turn).

The same is also true of pretty much anybody putting forward and ideological position to a dubious audience but I guess you already know that.

Pretty much but it comes in degrees.

This government unashamedly lies to the electorate on a daily basis.

They are way worse than the opposition in that regard.

[(o)(o)]

.. to appear incompetent or uncertain which is Not Allowed. See also, changing one's mind in the light of new evidence (a.k.a. a shocking policy U-turn)

Incidentally Brown did admit to making errors.

I've only evver seen Cameron do this for rhetoric purposes.

[zip accident]

rhetoric purposes.

English is flexible, but you have to use all of it. "rhetorical purposes" or "purposes of rhetoric" are both good English.

No offence intended, things like this seem to be happening to everybody, I guess it started with phonetic spelling in schools, then texting. Adopting phrases or whatever from people whose first language isn't English probably comes in there somewhere. I guess it will all settle down when everyone's first language is the same one.

[gravy]

.. to appear incompetent or uncertain which is Not Allowed. See also, changing one's mind in the light of new evidence (a.k.a. a shocking policy U-turn)

Incidentally Brown did admit to making errors.

I've only evver seen Cameron do this for rhetoric purposes.

Bit of a mea culpa over Coulson iirc

[(o)(o)]

.. to appear incompetent or uncertain which is Not Allowed. See also, changing one's mind in the light of new evidence (a.k.a. a shocking policy U-turn)

Incidentally Brown did admit to making errors.

I've only evver seen Cameron do this for rhetoric purposes.

Bit of a mea culpa over Coulson iirc

The one were he dodged serious questions about the employment of Coulson..?

The one where the judge reprimanded him for putting a major trial at risk ?

If his apology was full - he would have taken full responsibility rather than blaming others for lying.

If it was frank - he would have addressed serious questions about lapses in scrutiny

What he did do was evade tricky questions about stuff like lying under oath.

At the time I was open to the possibility he believed ths shit himself

http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?f=2 ... y#p1607677

However Osbourne repeated the apology near verbatim in HOC- demonstrates the degree to which it was choreographed

[(o)(o)]

Oh and.. the timing of it.. Didn't Cameron know he's potentially breaching contempt of court laws?

Yes of course he bloody did he said his wording was carefully chosen. And he's got advisors that advise him on that. Probably wrote it for him.

So WHAT was the impediment that required Cameron to rush out and apologise mid trial?

Anyway, "I'm so sorry that the tabloid geezer lied to me..<cough> don't lets talk about vetting procedures <cough>" yeah super sincere

[gravy]

Yeah calm down, just pointing out it's one of those rhetorical apologies you hadn't heard from him.

It means nothing, just anothe tactic to gain some ground. Much like Brown's

He also apologised to the Queen last year though I think he may have meant that one

[(o)(o)]

Calm down lol

It DOES mean something

Brown has apologised without shifting blame and all those other issues

[edit : first you say" mea culpa " then 'it meant nothing" shoulda guessed i was being trolled]

[pogo]

They are way worse than the opposition in that regard.

You remember the last government differently to me then. The Iraq war ? The ”end to boom and bust” ? Cash for honours ? The redistribution by stealth, where massive sums were quietly redirected to civil servants, sometimes paid for by announced tax rises (the NI rise). but often via stealth taxes such as fiscal drag or just borrowed ? The "golden rule", of no net borrowing over the business cycle ? Both their economic and foreign policies were based on cons.

[(o)(o)]

They are way worse than the opposition in that regard.

You remember the last government differently to me then. The Iraq war ?

Sure. Tony Blair is a war criminal. Labour were the lesser of two evils.

ALL electable parties in the UK are twats.

You do seem to have a blind spot to any good stuff Labour did.

And the carnage the ConDem wrecking ball has done and is doing.

[pogo]

I do see it very differently. The current government has been and is being very honest about our economic situation, explaining the need for cuts. There have been political reasons for this, to highlight the excessive spending of the previous government, but that does not make it less honest. Certainly some on the left disbelieve the government thinking there is no need for cuts but they, the no-cuts movement, are frankly delusional. You can’t base your economic policy on fantasy and wishful thinking.

Govt. borrowing is sometimes brought up as dishonest, and it’s true the government planned to eliminate the deficit by now. But that’s a failure of prediction, and a very common one. In 2010 everyone or almost everyone predicted the pace of the UK recovery wrong. The main error was failing to spot or foresee how bad it was and would get in the eurozone. Furthermore the nature of the UK recovery was unexpected and is still poorly understood – the “productivity puzzle” which saw slow wage growth and so to disappointing tax revenues, impacting government finances.