Amanda Fucking Palmer

[pogo]

https://www.patreon.com/amandapalmer

[gravy]

She likes her money doesn't she?

[pogo]

Don’t we all? She’s trying something different again, and there‘s nothing wrong with that. She could sign to a major label. She could make more in the corporate world doing any number of things. But instead of an advance or steady salary she’s being paid by the song to make new art. Hardly the act of someone who values financial security over all else.

[gravy]

As far as I can work out she's got all of the resources she needs to satisfy a load of her I WANT demands on the patreon page.

That's the good thing about making music, going to Berln and writing some songs in German costs piss all. Same with starting a podcast or recording some songs with her Dad.

She wants that stuff but it's mostly things she can have without having people give her cash on patreon.

Which means she doesn't really want it at all.

[pogo]

The problem with traditional music making is the market’s collapsed: it’s a fraction the size it was 15 years ago. So if she went off to e.g. Berlin and made an album of Weill songs (say), it might just not sell, or at least not sell nearly enough to justify the expenses, rights and months taken.

Patreon gives creators a budget to work with. In a way it’s like Kickstarter except it repeats. You pledge and keep paying as long as the artist produces art. It’s also explicitly about art, not physical things as Kickstarter is (even a Kickstarter about art always seems to include a physical version). Arguably it’s a much better fit for AFP. As always no-one has to pledge, people can pledge as much or little as they want, and can stop whenever they want.

And Weill songs:

[gravy]

Patreon releases the funds once the work has been supplied to the subscribers.

It's guaranteed sales, not an advance.

[pogo]

Did I write otherwise? Logically the artist has to deliver before being paid, they are not being paid in advance. The payment is per “thing” which can be anything. The handful of other Patreon pledge drives I’ve looked at have rather more concrete deliverables than AFP, who essentially is saying “I want to do cool stuff, please trust me it will be worth your pledges”. It seems to be working.

First deliverable is already on its way. A new piece of music, the first in ages, “bigger on the inside” with Zoe Keating on cello (of course). Drops on Monday, paid for by Patreon but free to everyone. Not sure how Dr Who related it is, beyond the name.

[(o)(o)]

First deliverable is already on its way. A new piece of music, the first in ages, “bigger on the inside” with Zoe Keating on cello (of course). Plops on Monday, paid for by Patreon

FTFY

[gravy]

Did I write otherwise? Logically the artist has to deliver before being paid, they are not being paid in advance. The payment is per “thing” which can be anything. The handful of other Patreon pledge drives I’ve looked at have rather more concrete deliverables than AFP, who essentially is saying “I want to do cool stuff, please trust me it will be worth your pledges”. It seems to be working.

First deliverable is already on its way. A new piece of music, the first in ages, “bigger on the inside” with Zoe Keating on cello (of course). Drops on Monday, paid for by Patreon but free to everyone. Not sure how Dr Who related it is, beyond the name.

It's a mechanism for people who already have the cash flow available to them. Monday's release isn't paid for by Patreon, it was paid for by the cash flow she's already generated from her previous work.

And as far as I can work out her "new music" was already recorded a while back.

The most generous way of looking at it is she's capping her own reward for each "thing" via Patreon.

That she's using Patreon to release already completed works the slightly more sinister point of view is she's holding her fans to ransom.

I dunno, I just don't like the smell of manipulation I get off this. I'd probably be more ameniable to it if I actually liked anything she makes.

Stepping outside of personal preference though, this stuff is interesting though I suspect like any business model it'll end up favouring artists with a keen commerical instinct irrespecitve of artistic merit.

[pogo]

One limitation of Patreon and Kickstarter is rather than enabling new artists to find audiences they are mostly being used by established artists to raise money. A problem when it’s used for things that could be and probably should have been traditionally funded, such as Project Godus or Elite And Dangerous. But in the hands of AfP it’s very different. She used Kickstarter to fund her album Theatre is Evil but she did far more than that with it, not just the usual things such as packaged editions, an art book and launch parties but house parties. Notably every tier got the album – it only cost $1 (and was available on release for free) – so her record breaking total came from the extras on top of it. Much of what she did for real money appeared online later, so even if you paid only $1 or nothing you could benefit from other people’s larger contributions.

So I have high hopes she’ll use Patreon to similarly defy expectations, both in what she achieves and in how its delivered, using Patreon to its best advantage. It probably helps that she’s friends with one of the founders which may look like sinister manipulation but is probably far just ensuring both get the most out of it, as Patreon needs the backing of people like her far more than she needs Patreon. In the end if you don’t like what she does or how she does it you don’t need to support her or even pay attention. If you don’t like her business model just wait and it will all be available to buy / download more traditionally afterwards.

[Little stoned kiwi]

One limitation of Patreon and Kickstarter is rather than enabling new artists to find audiences they are mostly being used by established artists to raise money. A problem when it’s used for things that could be and probably should have been traditionally funded, such as Project Godus or Elite And Dangerous. But in the hands of AfP it’s very different.

The only thing the two have in common is they allow the creator to retain creative control. There is nothing wrong with established players utilising them for that reason instead of traditional publishing where they don't. And obviously, established players attract funding more easily.
It's not any different in the hands of Amanda, it just is what it is.

[pogo]

The only thing the two have in common is they allow the creator to retain creative control. There is nothing wrong with established players utilising them for that reason instead of traditional publishing where they don't. And obviously, established players attract funding more easily.
It's not any different in the hands of Amanda, it just is what it is.

The problem is when established players fail to deliver. E.g. Elite and Dangerous (lack of offline mode), Project Godus (pretty much everything). Both companies are headed by industry veterans that should have had no trouble obtaining traditional funding (as 22 Cans did for the mobile version of Godus). Then if they failed to deliver the investing company, i.e. game publisher, would be the one facing losses. The public would just buy or not buy the finished game based on advertised features and reviews. As it is backers were made to bear the risks and costs of their failing to deliver.

It was easier for AFP. All she needed to do is make an album + book, tour, attend a few dozen house parties. She could have easily mechanically delivered them to fulfil her KS pledges but e.g. done it half-heartedly (thankfully she did much much better than this). But there were no technical risks as there are with software development. This is an argument perhaps for keeping complex software off KS altogether, or having a very different structure for it. Maybe more like Patreon so game developers get paid based on deliverables, as often happens with a traditional publisher.

[Little stoned kiwi]

Yes, it easier for Amanda as she's really selling herself as a brand instead of a pre-defined product. Those who choose to back her aren't going to be disappointed with whatever comes out the other side.
You love her, you want to give her money. But your understanding of Kickstarter and Patreon comes across as being flawed.

[VNVObit]

AFP pattern approach are pre-sales, others have approached to secure patrons

https://www.patreon.com/blacktapeforabluegirl on $580 pm at the moment

as for avenues for bands to control releases, best vehicle for that I've seen do far is bandcamp,com with a considerably smaller cut for the hosts then iTunes, etc. and allows for physical releases.

[pogo]

As promised here is the first Patreon funded thing. The lyrics are printed on the page but best to ignore them and just listen to it, with headphones and no distractions.

http://amandapalmer.bandcamp.com/track/ ... e-inside-3