Politics Thread!

[pogo]

Just listened to Miliband: a far better resignation speech than Clegg. How Labour reacts to this defeat will be crucial.

Yes, the Tory majority will be razor thin, thinner even than in 1992. That in some ways though makes Cameron’s job easier: backbenchers will not have the freedom to make political statements by opposing the government or abstaining. Also Labour, who were a strengthening force in 1992, have lost badly this time. The Tories won’t face an effective organised opposition for a long time, if at all over this parliament.

[zip accident]

Just listened to Miliband: a far better resignation speech than Clegg. How Labour reacts to this defeat will be crucial.

Yes, the Tory majority will be razor thin, thinner even than in 1992. That in some ways though makes Cameron’s job easier: backbenchers will not have the freedom to make political statements by opposing the government or abstaining. Also Labour, who were a strengthening force in 1992, have lost badly this time. The Tories won’t face an effective organised opposition for a long time, if at all over this parliament.

What there are going to be, is calls for PR:

A majority on 36.9% of the vote?

One MP for 12.6% of the vote?

56 MPs on 4.8% of the vote?

One MP on 3.8% of the vote?

I do like it, but eight MPs for 7.8% of the vote isn't sensible either.

[offyoutoddle]

seemed to me more like a final demonstration of the man's shocking poor judgement - claiming Harriet Harman as the best deputy someone could hope for.

A man who put his own personal ambition before the entire country, stamping over his own brother even who no doubt would have made a far better opponent to the Tories, leading us to the next 5 years of god knows what. Frankly I won't mourn his passing in politics.

[pogo]

Calls for PR from who? Not Labour who like the Tories do best in a FPTP system. Not the SNP whose number one goal is Scottish independence, and who anyway have done pretty well out of FPTP this time round. UKIP might want PR, though they might also prefer to wait a while and see how many of their strong showings in second place they can turn into seats in by-elections and in 2020.

The Lib Dems of course want PR, now more than ever. But they had their chance to push for it, actually got a vote on it, and lost badly. And no-one else really matters: most PR systems have a threshold of e.g. 5 or 10% which parties need to cross to win any seats and the Greens are nowhere near either of those.

[offyoutoddle]

the vote we had was hardly the type of PR that they wanted though. As such it was bound to fail, so I'd say the country still hasn't had a chance to vote on PR really.

[pogo]

the vote we had was hardly the type of PR that they wanted though. As such it was bound to fail, so I'd say the country still hasn't had a chance to vote on PR really.

It doesn’t matter. I mean the time to argue about whether it’s a vote on PR is before the vote. They supported it, they campaigned for it. They just come across as sore losers if they try and push for a re-run on another hard to explain system – a re-run that would almost certainly do as badly.

[offyoutoddle]

based on what's just happened, I'd say it matters very much.

The change in the situation with the scottish vote may make your assessment of the parties stance on the current voting system less likely to be the case. I'd say electoral reform may very much be back on the table at some point in the next parliament. I'm not necessarily saying a brain buggeringly complex PR variant, but I'm sure the current situation is very alarming for all parties.

[pogo]

There’s certainly a case for further reform WRT Scotland. Scotland more than ever before now has a distinct and separate electoral landscape, with elections won on issues completely different to those in England. But not independence so soon after the last referendum.

There is a case for further devolution, though as much if not more in England. It is nonsensical for Scottish MPs to be able to vote on all areas of e.g. English education while English MPs have no say over Scottish education. And it makes sense to slow the pace of Scottish devolution while the last changes start taking effect.

In particular in 2012 the Scottish Parliament gained the ability to raise and lower taxes independently, and to borrow money independently, of the Westminster government. If the SNP wants more socialist, redistributive policies in Scotland they could introduce them at any time. The logical next step would be full fiscal independence, with Scotland responsible for all its finances. But that would mean a large black hole in Scottish finances, so would likely be resisted.

[offyoutoddle]

losing no time, they are off with the latest piece of malice:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/08 ... ty_powers/

[Cloudane]

*sigh*
God help us.

They don't hang around either do they (e: beaten to it)

a reminder sent to the lib dems of the dangers of betraying the electorate's expectations.

Didn't seem to put the Tories in much danger, but then Cameron is far better at spin and general dishonesty, so he's managed to somehow convince the public he's done a perfect job.

[offyoutoddle]

and of course nobody had any expectations of the tories other than living up to their reputation for being the 'nasty' party

[pogo]

Far from perfect, but the alternatives were worse. Labour especially seemed to think that there was strong support for a party not only to the left of the Tories, but to the left of Labour under Blair/Brown. But the support for that is far weaker than Miliband realises.

Nationally Tories + UKIP got almost 50% of the vote. In just England they got 55% of the vote. The electorate in the UK is broadly centre right. Parties can win elections from the centre, like the last Labour government (only to veer left once in power). Or from the right like the Tories since Thatcher. No-one has won from the left for a very long time. The last time anyone tried before this election was in 1992 – also the last time the Tories won an overall majority.

[KlaxonCow]

Politician in "let's make Great Britain great again!" clichéd pun shocker!

Good one, Dave. No-one's ever made that pun-tastic joke before in all of British political history, and there's nothing lazy, unoriginal nor vague in any way about just blindly repeating it for the umpteenth million time as a hollow and vapid "feel good" bit of meaningless nationalism that actually literally means nothing at all.

Well done. Keep up the great work. The great British work, you might say.

Do you get it, Dave? Do you get it? It's, like, a joke and shit. Absolutely fucking hilarious. "Great British work". There's, like, a clever double meaning in it. Bet no-one's ever thought of that one before, innit? What a fucking comedy genius I am!

[gravy]

Just listened to Miliband: a far better resignation speech than Clegg. How Labour reacts to this defeat will be crucial.

I think you're way off beam there.

He's leaving with immediate effect which means the future direction of the party (left / right / centrist) as a whole is now all mixed in with a leadership contest.

That's an awful model for rebuilding a party.

It's going to end up with Burnham vs Umuna in left v right argy bargy.

[Absolute_Zero]

T. Blair called it in January... an election “in which a traditional left-wing party competes with a traditional right-wing party, with the traditional result”.