Politics Thread!

Inane baanter or words of wisdom - you decide...
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zip accident
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by zip accident »

The ghost of raids past wrote:
tufty wrote:You are Enoch Powell AICMFP

"Rivers of Porridge"
Not sure what AICMFP means.
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pogo wrote:They don’t seem to take account of small parties being excluded by cut offs, i.e. the Greens and SNP. But they get the same result which is a Tory + UKIP majority.
I was about to post that graph, but I think I doubt your arithmetic, I'm by no means sure that the Tories have a majority even with UKIP, though it possibly depends who the "others" are. Any party would clearly prefer not to have to have a coalition.

It is strange that people are still voting in our poll after the election.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by pogo »

zip accident wrote:I was about to post that graph, but I think I doubt your arithmetic, I'm by no means sure that the Tories have a majority even with UKIP, though it possibly depends who the "others" are. Any party would clearly prefer not to have to have a coalition.
Tories: 331 - 75 = 256. UKIP: 83 (both from the article rather than graph). So between them 339, or an even better majority. You might question my politics but my arithmetic is always right :)
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by PFVA »

May i say i didn't like the results of your elections.

It seems that the "North Europe Countries" (not so exactly geographically) are turning right meanwhile "South Europe" turns left.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by F-ZeroOne »

PFVA wrote:May i say i didn't like the results of your elections.
You're not exactly alone in that just now... :)
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by pogo »

We’ve either always been right wing or took a decisive rightwards swing in the 1980s – that’s as far back as I remember but some things I’ve read or heard have indicated it’s been like that for a lot longer, with left wing parties not being able to win elections outright since 1945. It’s not especially a recent trend.

We do seem to be an outlier within the EU, with perhaps Ireland. I don’t know why. Religion may be a factor, with the “Protestant work ethic” encouraging self reliance and hard work as a route to salvation, while Catholicism is associated with salvation directly from God and charity. But that doesn’t explain why we are so different from e.g. Germany. Perhaps it also comes from America, where self reliance and the rejection of the state is almost a religion, and our strong language and historic ties to them.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by The ghost of raids past »

pogo wrote:We’ve either always been right wing or took a decisive rightwards swing in the 1980s – that’s as far back as I remember but some things I’ve read or heard have indicated it’s been like that for a lot longer, with left wing parties not being able to win elections outright since 1945. It’s not especially a recent trend.

We do seem to be an outlier within the EU, with perhaps Ireland. I don’t know why. Religion may be a factor, with the “Protestant work ethic” encouraging self reliance and hard work as a route to salvation, while Catholicism is associated with salvation directly from God and charity. But that doesn’t explain why we are so different from e.g. Germany. Perhaps it also comes from America, where self reliance and the rejection of the state is almost a religion, and our strong language and historic ties to them.
The US has strong language and historic ties to the UK not the other way around.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by VNVObit »

pogo wrote:
VNVObit wrote:While not a fan of Will Self do think he's right that the election was dominated by preying on people's fears
Yes, but it failed. Labour when not coming up with unworkable policies tried to spread fear of a Tory government (though they mostly thought a strong SDP showing would let one in, not they would win outright). But it didn’t work as their dire warnings had proved completely wrong before. Labour during the last parliament said that Tory policies would lead to higher unemployment and a second recession, but it didn't happen. We now have record numbers in work and the fastest growth in the G7 (having just overtaken France as 5th largest economy). So people were disinclined to believe Labour fear-mongering this time.
It was the Tories I was thinking about as I heard nothing concrete from them other than creating fear of a Labour/SNP coalition .

When asked direct questions they gave evasive answers particularly when asked about where the £12bn savings were coming from
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by VNVObit »

defsdoor wrote:
VNVObit wrote: Saw this on Channel 4 last night
While not a fan of Will Self do think he's right that the election was dominated by preying on people's fears
Well I for one was scared shitless that another Labour government would ensure my great grand kids would still be paying for their recklessness. So much so I actually let my daughter vote.

Problem with that is the only words on the voting slip she recognised or understood meant we ending up voting for the Green Party.

A number of Tory policies (lower housing grant, affordable rent, right to buy extension) create significant future liabilities for future generations which aren't actually capped. As to the structural deficit, a significant proportion of that was their own underinvestment when times were good (I'm thinking of the pension liabilities in particular).

They have a tendency to go for short term financial options that become unaffordable in the long run which tax payers pay for, including future generations, e.g. communications infrastructure.

They've never been strategic in a business sense (if you think of them as effectively the directors of UK plc) and having a five year term tends to have them focusing on what they can show at the next election rather than establishing a vision for, say the NHS and having complimentary policies in transport, food (think sugar), environment, etc. that actually help manage the costs over time.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by pogo »

VNVObit wrote:It was the Tories I was thinking about as I heard nothing concrete from them other than creating fear of a Labour/SNP coalition .
I know: I turned it around to show there was at least as much negativity and fearmongering from Labour. Their soundbite on the SNP, which they used repeatedly, was “don’t vote for them and let the Tories in” – no mention of how Labour had better policies than the SNP for Scotland. It didn’t help them in Scotland or England.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by gravy »

Anyone got any ideas how they're going to pull £12bn PA out of the welfare budget then?
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by VNVObit »

pogo wrote:
VNVObit wrote:It was the Tories I was thinking about as I heard nothing concrete from them other than creating fear of a Labour/SNP coalition .
I know: I turned it around to show there was at least as much negativity and fearmongering from Labour. Their soundbite on the SNP, which they used repeatedly, was “don’t vote for them and let the Tories in” – no mention of how Labour had better policies than the SNP for Scotland. It didn’t help them in Scotland or England.
The Tories set the tone for the entire campaign and Labour failed to change it.
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Re: Politics Thread!

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Speaking as early results on Friday indicated the Conservatives would form a government with a Commons majority, Theresa May said increased surveillance powers was “one very key example” of Tory policy that was blocked by the coalition arrangement with the Liberal Democrats in the previous government.
Fucking ada, can't she at least give it a couple of weeks before kicking off with this again?
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by phattslagg »

gravy wrote:Anyone got any ideas how they're going to pull £12bn PA out of the welfare budget then?
Oh, I'm pretty sure it will be joyfully.
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by gravy »

Gove back in the cabinet, Justice Minister

<shudder>
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Re: Politics Thread!

Post by Cloudane »

Oh they're not fucking about. Now they know they're in charge, it's all guns blazing!

Shall we see how they're also screwing over the disabled? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 37191.html
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