Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[snaff]

Mac and Linux thrown under a bus
https://www.oculus.com/blog/powering-the-rift/

Our development for OS X and Linux has been paused in order to focus on delivering a high quality consumer-level VR experience at launch across hardware, software, and content on Windows.

Well, bollocks anyway. Let's hope the valve thing has better driver development.

[sack]

to be fair though you need a metric fuckton of Mac to meet their requirements, and if it's down to nothing on 3 platforms or something on one with the other two following this really is the better idea.

especially if the alternative is getting canned with nothing released anywhere

[pogo]

They’ve had literally years to work on the software side of it, so could have come up with Mac drivers if they wanted. It’s Facebook FFS, second or third richest tech company on the planet, with a particular focus on software. But you don’t especially need Mac drivers to develop for it at the moment, still a year from release. Work on your app, if you are planning a Mac version build it for standard displays then add Oculus support when it’s ready.

[Dio]

They’ve had literally years to work on the software side of it, so could have come up with Mac drivers if they wanted.

Not that simple though. There's a limited number of people who can work on the problems of driver latency and the like - and it's a very diffuse one for Linux.

Even on Windows, there's stuff they've found very hard to do. Why do you think we did LiquidVR? There's problems in the graphics software stack that are really hard to solve outside the video driver.

[gilesgoat]

They’ve had literally years to work on the software side of it, so could have come up with Mac drivers if they wanted.

Not that simple though. There's a limited number of people who can work on the problems of driver latency and the like - and it's a very diffuse one for Linux.

Even on Windows, there's stuff they've found very hard to do. Why do you think we did LiquidVR? There's problems in the graphics software stack that are really hard to solve outside the video driver.

Yes .. Latency is a serious killer .. And a thing you can only sort by putting hand on the drivers and os, not too much can be done from the client side.

I can't even understand well how they actually managed to do some stuff on windows but I can understand a bit the problems they are going into.

This is not just "you have all the money" you need to be able to involve and have actively working on that people like Nvidia and AMD and such.

When you'll see certain things well ... It's not been easy to get there

[venusian]

So I bought Lemma on steam yesterday. It's a free-running type game from a 1st person perspective. It has Oculus support which took about 30 minutes to get working (downgrade drivers, extended mode, primary display only, unlock vsync etc, etc) then about 30 seconds from "Press start" to nausea which is a new record. Bleugh.

[gilesgoat]

So I bought Lemma on steam yesterday. It's a free-running type game from a 1st person perspective. It has Oculus support which took about 30 minutes to get working (downgrade drivers, extended mode, primary display only, unlock vsync etc, etc) then about 30 seconds from "Press start" to nausea which is a new record. Bleugh.

I hope after all this time and those kind of experiences you'll feel "the pain" of *ME* that spent considerable time studying carefully examples and "no we do things RIGHT as they should be done" to have an SW that :

- automatically identifies IF the Oculus is connected or not
- automatically identifies what model of Oculus is connected
- allows you to even choose some "hacks" depending on what you want to do
- if there's Oculus goes VR, if there's not goes "normal video"
- goes direct video mode using the optimal performance
- won't screw your desktop or display
- adjust the program depending on what it finds
- ( if DK2 ) goes fully 75 Hz super smooth, 150 fps ! ( 75 hz times 2 frames )
- loads quick

And all this, you can do it, by studying the samples, reading the fucking manual, asking the right questions to the right people, spending time implementing and testing it really works.

So you see now why someone is often grunting and swearing in a room to get to all this

[Dio]

I can't even understand well how they actually managed to do some stuff on windows but I can understand a bit the problems they are going into.

Let's say that the effort they went to to try to make direct-to-rift work before we got involved was rather mind-boggling. It was so much easier for us, because we own the display enumeration and could just hide it all from the OS at the bottom of the driver stack.

[gilesgoat]

I can't even understand well how they actually managed to do some stuff on windows but I can understand a bit the problems they are going into.

Let's say that the effort they went to to try to make direct-to-rift work before we got involved was rather mind-boggling. It was so much easier for us, because we own the display enumeration and could just hide it all from the OS at the bottom of the driver stack.

So when we get the timewarp on scanline basis then pleeeease

[KlaxonCow]

Parkour!

[gumboot]

I can't even understand well how they actually managed to do some stuff on windows but I can understand a bit the problems they are going into.

Let's say that the effort they went to to try to make direct-to-rift work before we got involved was rather mind-boggling. It was so much easier for us, because we own the display enumeration and could just hide it all from the OS at the bottom of the driver stack.

So when we get the timewarp on scanline basis then pleeeease

I thought there were no scanlines.

[gumboot]

So when we get the timewarp on scanline basis then pleeeease

I thought there were no scanlines.

Turns out that's the second time I've said that in response to that.
Here's why:
http://www.yakyak.org/viewtopic.php?p=1602215#p1602215

What made me start on about raytracing was the union of the last paragraph of this and this (have been pushing, on and off, for a high-latency cubemap renderer and a raster-racing cubemap rotator ever since). Raytracing seems like the logical way to extrapolate on that.

[Baggypants]

Mac and Linux thrown under a bus
https://www.oculus.com/blog/powering-the-rift/

I guess cashflow's gotta come from somewhere innit..
The multiplatform ideal is somewhat compromised when the expenses start rolling in and there's a majority audience who are used to paying for software that does stuff.

Are you suggesting Mac owners have a reputation for not shelling out stupid amounts of cash for glitzy nonsense?

[pogo]

Mac owners are generally happy to shell out when there’s something worthwhile. And it’s an attractive platform to develop for as it is essentially just one, fairly tightly controlled one. Just require the latest version of OS X, and by doing so you get a pretty standard hardware and software platform. The biggest variable is the GPU but Open GL abstracts that and you can just not support any older/mobile chips you have problems with.

The only caveat is Mac users don’t spend as much on high end new games as PC, as they often don’t come out for Mac, or if they do there’s often a delay. A Mac does make an expensive games machine, or an underpowered one for the price. If you just want to play the latest games get a PC, or console.

[Sir_LANs-a-lot]

In fairness, all they have to do to sell it to Apple users is make it white and call it the iVR.