Fool me, this is real good shit ! [the VR thread]

[pogo]

It’s hard to think of a use for them. Most mainstream games are out as they will all support Xbox style controllers and these are just too different to provide a similar experience. Sport/dance/fitness games can make good use of motion tracking, but you’re not going to do anything too strenuous/athletic/rhythmic with a Rift strapped to your head, not least as you might hit something and do yourself an injury.

So that leaves social apps. And of course they are owned by Facebook. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the reason for the delay. I can’t believe it’s a hardware issue; they could ship them this year if they had to, well before the Rift. Maybe though they’re to go with a Facebook VR app, which won’t be ready until later or is being delayed so Oculus can focus on games first.

[gravy]

In effect they’ve already shipped two VR/AR products – two more than Sony, MS and Oculus/FB. Plus they have the advantage of developers already working on Android, with apps ready to port to a new VR version of it.

So if Occulus had shipped a consumer unit, 3 dev platforms and had a well written and solid SDK that works on Android (with shipped games) you'd have a different view on that?

[pogo]

Rift hasn’t shipped; dev kits yes but final hardware is nine months away. I forgot about the Gear VR but that’s more a Samsung product.

Yes, Glass is debatable, but I think when it first came out Google and many if not most commentators thought it was a real product. An expensive and limited 1.0 but a real product with a future. Except after a universally poor reception Google canned it, so we will probably never know what version 1.5 or 2.0 would have looked like.

[Whiteball]

Google Glass hasn't been killed though, just 'put aside for now'. It is still being developed and worked on, but in a 'bigger picture' scenario where it isn't the main focus or key element.

[Darkflame]

It was always clear it wasn't a final product for mass consumption, nor has Google canned it.
This information is all public, its not secret yet people keep getting the basics wrong. The "explorer" editions of the device was exactly for experimentation and feedback, deliberately very costly and only in limited numbers. Some people even got sent revised models (for free) as changes were made to the spec.

While Google didn't publish why they stopped selling it, its likely because the chipset for it wasn't produced any more which meant they could never scale up production even if they wanted. So it made sense to go back and work on revisions.

Google still has a full division working on Glass right now which actually scales it up from being just a Google X project, with Tony Fadell the new project lead.

The fact that "most commentators" got basic stuff wrong isn't surprising though. "Most commentators" are often wrong.

That said, given Googles investment in MagicLeap - something which surely cant be packed into a outdoor HMD yet - it would seem Google is hedging their bets here, possibly with the idea to merge projects down the line, but that could be a few years away.

[pogo]

Google Glass hasn't been killed though, just 'put aside for now'. It is still being developed and worked on, but in a 'bigger picture' scenario where it isn't the main focus or key element.

Yes. Again, my point was Google despite not seemingly competing head-on with Rift, Project Morpheus or Hololens have more experience than all of them put together with actual shipped products, Glass and Cardboard, and are clearly working on something bigger. Apart from those companies and Apple (who seem uninterested) no other company is better placed, with both the hardware experience and software expertise. And like Apple and MS they have a particular interest in seeing their OS installed on as many devices as possible.

[gilesgoat]

I still don't fully understand all this "negative vibe" about VR.

Ok .. DK1 was "showing a potential that could be" but practically was a bit shitty .. true.dat .. however, it was a prototype ..

But DK2 - not super prefect no - already IMHO shows "quite a good vibe of what things can be" it also shows they made quite some improvements in a quite short time, it's pretty useable as it is, it allows you to do wonderful stuff, sure can be improved on and it's been already done.

Meanwhile other things appeared .. it's quite clear to everybody now that VR "OR you do it RIGHT or is SHIT BUT it CAN BE DONE right" ..

Yes it takes extra work, yes you have to design for it, yes it's a new thing to work on.

But it's a BLOODY GOOD NEW THING .. TOO GOOD to say "Oh it takes too much extra work I am NOT going to do it because of that".

So people wants NEW things, FINALLY there's something that is really fucking cool, that from what we see already it's clear that "it will get better and better", that it's clear that can do things that NOTHING ELSE can so far ..

I can't believe it's going to be "a fad" or fail .. this is almost, for the first time, "one of the few new things that really work and can change a bit the world" ..

Yes you have to design for it, yes you have to work with it, yes you have to make new things for it ..

"Take the shovel in your hands and start digging, there's a half mountains to move".

Nobody said that has to be a replacement or the end of some current things, it's just one more new alternative.

All this blah de blah because you have to do things specifically for an in that way for .. .. yeah ? .. So what ? Do it !

Or are we again on the Nth FPS the same way, the Nth MMORPG or dunno what always done the same ways or such ..

VR is interesting .. it's been more than proven by facts that can do "some really incredible shit" and this is more than justified reason for keep doing it and trying to make even more incredible shit.

Also what is that people really want ? I don't get it .. I've seen more than a bunch of people now in various exhibitions trying VR many of them for the first time ever and getting out with a smile saying "Dude this is awesome" ..

So why all those negative toughts ? .. I think this VR this is "already too big as it is now to be doomed to fail", you can't really ignore it, nor deny how much interesting it can be.

Like all things all the other projects/thing they need to find "the best way they can be used with/for" .. sometime and idea is there, is good but it's not in the right place yet, but the place could come later.

Anyway I tell you what, no matter what happens "I am going to buy one" and I am going to use it

[gumboot]

Got my OR killer, today:


Google Cardboard

It turns out the demo I saw the other day (non-cardboard) gets its orientation data without the camera. The Cardboard's rear cut-out blocks the camera on the phone I stuck in it, so the only data available to it is accelerometer -- and maybe compass?

Certainly laggy, and a little jittery. Not in the slightest bit immersive.


I assume that this gets the APIs established so that developers can get their content together for cheap, and then apply it to exciting hardware should that ever appear on the market.


[edit] hm. I joke, but for whatever reason View-Master is actually going there: http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/google-matt ... ew-master/

[pogo]

It turns out the demo I saw the other day (non-cardboard) gets its orientation data without the camera. The Cardboard's rear cut-out blocks the camera on the phone I stuck in it, so the only data available to it is accelerometer -- and maybe compass?

Certainly laggy, and a little jittery. Not in the slightest bit immersive.

It will have to be the accelerometer and maybe compass. Using the camera would be even less reliable much of the time, and to even half-work would consume most of the CPU of the phone and so render it unable to anything else. So the experience will depend on the accuracy of the accelerometer etc. At least that is something phone makers can work on improving.

Video by MS talking about Rift, Window 10, Hololens.

Seems you will be able to stream your Xbox games to the rift but it has something to do with Windows 10 so may need that installed on both your PC and the console. And stream not play: it’s not an announcement of Xbox One support for the Rift.

Also bundling the wireless Xbox One controller ?? Seems like a very odd decision. I’m sure they got a good price but even so it’s an expensive controller and will make the Rift more expensive. It’s especially odd as probably the vast majority of buyers have one or more similar controllers: they’ve been a standard PC gaming peripheral for years.

[pogo]

[Jamesac]

I still don't fully understand all this "negative vibe" about VR.

I don't get it either, honestly. Maybe people have heard too much hype about things that didn't turn out to deserve it so cynicism is the natural response? VR isn't the future of gaming but it's absolutely a future. Hopefully once it's out and more widely played the negativity will die down.

[gravy]

Well to be fair the VR vibe is mostly positive and the griping marginal. Most people are amped by the huge investment by big companies into smart people to push the boundary of games.

Pogo's odd, he's got a point of view about what's going to happen despite never even seen any of this kit in the flesh let alone tried it. And keen to argue the toss with people who've been lucky to have an inside peek into the future.

I don't think the current round of tech is mass market but that's okay, it will be one day and my gut feel is this will be succesful enough to keep it going and an important step towards immersion into synthetic worlds being everyday.

[Whiteball]

Most of the naysayers are people who haven't even tired VR or who have tried it but experienced poorly implemented stuff.

I had a Rift DK2 and to be honest, this stuff definitely has a fantastic future down the line.
However, had I only experienced the demos that are floating around and most of the 'hacked in after the fact' games support then I would have had a different opinion...

Something like
1. Poor implementation = poor experience
2. Come away thinking 'it's ok, but just a slightly better 3D'

But... having experienced the TxKVRDemo and Elite Dangerous in VR you can see that done right this stuff makes a massive difference and is much, much more than just 'better 3D'. It really does add something you just can not explain or get across to people who haven't experienced it.

TxKVR brings a new feeling entirely to the experience giving shape, solidity and an almost life-like quality to the abstract shapes coming at you. You're no longer an onlooker, but a true participant who is right in there with them.

I actually sold my DK2 recently as I needed to break from Elite Dangerous as I was spending far to much time in it.
Elite worked so well in VR, albeit at lower resolution and detail, that even though I can now ramp all those up and it looks absolutely lovely, I just can't play it. It feels like there is something missing and everything just seems like flat cardboard cut outs. It feels nothing like flying a ship, being in a station or going around the galaxy anymore.

Before VR though, that wasn't the case. I thought Elite was fantastic. It's amazing how this thing changes your perception and expectations.

[Bod]

Now that looks like it could be a whole world of fun !!!

[Mqark]

'ang on a second... Consumer rift is bundled with an Xbox one pad - Xbox one pads have recently been advertised as having a dongle which requires Windows 10 - thus to use the Consumer rift I need Windows 10?
I'm not especially happy about that - I still haven't found a good reason to stop using Windows 7 yet.