Politics Thread!

[tufty]

Just came across this rather nice piece on immigruntz. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robin-l ... 09630.html

Worth it for the final paragraph.

The tragedy is that so many people are so desperate that they're prepared to die in an attempt to find a safe place to live. And our response is so blinkered that all we can think of is building higher fences.

[(o)(o)]

Worth it for the final paragraph.

The tragedy is that so many people are so desperate that they're prepared to die in an attempt to find a safe place to live. And our response is so blinkered that all we can think of is building higher fences.

I'm seeing many tabloid readers suggesting sending in the Army to shoot immigrants or round them up in razor wire concentration camps.

Typical example.





Yeah don't start shooting them it's "looks" bad

[pogo]

He does get to the heart of the issue of the Calais migrants in the eighth question:

Q.8: So who are the ones in Calais?

A: A huge mix of nationalities, most of whom have a particular reason for wanting to get to the UK: they may have relatives or friends who are already here, they may be English-speakers who believe they're more likely to find work here, or they may have heard that there's already a substantial number of others from their home country who have already settled here.

They are not coming here as they are freeing persecution in France, or Italy, or Greece, or wherever they arrived. Now they are in France they should apply for asylum there. There’s nothing wrong with France’s welfare system or asylum system, and they don’t need to come to Britain to apply. If anything the UK system is getting far less friendly towards asylum seekers, and they would be better off staying in France. They can come to the UK freely after they have obtained refugee status wherever they apply.

They are in France of course as France is in the Schengen Area, which means they have effectively abolished national borders. It would make sense to start processing migrants at their point of entry, rather than just letting them enter and travel wherever they want within the Area, then offered asylum in countries according to a quota. Never going to happen of course as it’s politically toxic; the countries who would get more refugees will never agree. Britain opted out of Schengen precisely so we would not have to deal with such things.

[gravy]

Kind of, to be honest it's a bit overly flattering to the UK.

Radio 4 have been interviewing people in the surround camps over the last few weeks and a recurrent them has been a want to get to the UK because it's seen as a stepping stone to get to the states.

[offyoutoddle]

what i've never understood is why migrants aren't processed in the first safe country they arrive in - that's the law isn't it (assuming more recent treaties haven't superceded it?) ? I'm honestly not looking for someone to tell me I'm a fascist or something, because i have no side in this, I'm really honestly just curious to find what the reason for what appears to be an apparent disregard for that rule?

[PFVA]

Because most of them cross the sea and end up in Greece, Italy, and Spain, and this countries say they don't have the resources to deal with the problem. I think the thought is that being an EU problem all the EU should put the money together to deal with it.

Mind you the situation is different in Portugal. Our government has even offered to take them but they don't want to come here, maybe because they know there is no jobs.

[Mayhem]

Radio 4 have been interviewing people in the surround camps over the last few weeks and a recurrent them has been a want to get to the UK because it's seen as a stepping stone to get to the states.

I'm curious to know exactly how that would work, or how they would get to the US after arriving in the UK. "How" as in actually being letting into the country without being kicked out and sent back on the first plane available! Apply for a UK passport or status, and then get into the US on the ESTA/visa waiver program and never leave?

[gravy]

I'm not sure it does work; I'm talking about the perception of the people risking their life in Calais to try and get here.

[(o)(o)]

The U^n>u<m scandal will probably be written about in the history books. "Political Corruption in the Early 21st Century".

Meanwhile, creeping social cleansing and genocide is widely disseminated according to the principles of propaganda.



How about a concrete example ...

"DWP caught giving disability propaganda to the Daily Mail"

You can actually see the govts press release thanks to this FOI request click through for the PDF.

[pogo]

“DWP caught giving disability propaganda to the Daily Mail” in a press release! What a terribly sneaky way for the government to get information out there. Whoever put in the FOI request must feel pretty foolish now, all they had to do is read some more newspapers. The information clearly came from the government and was carried by other newspapers.

[(o)(o)]

]The information clearly came from the government...

Wrong. The public aren't informed govt is initiating contact and providing content for tabloids

[pogo]

Only the government would have access to the detail of so many instances of benefit fraud. So yes, it clearly came from the government.

[(o)(o)]

Government publications regularly contain information like that. Until the FOI was made you had no way of knowing that instead of journalism (information gathering and reporting) the DM were being fed this information.

The press release is clearly highly distorted and is distributed actively and surreptitiously. That is what propaganda is.

Or are you calling the UK Statistics Authority a liar?

[pogo]

So it came from the government. Highly distorted? It’s just factual information. The government released it, some but not all newspapers decided to use it. Here’s one of our local papers reproducing what was in the press release:

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1 ... it_cheats/

[(o)(o)]

So it came from the government. Highly distorted? It’s just factual information. The government released it, some but not all newspapers decided to use it. Here’s one of our local papers reproducing what was in the press release:

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1 ... it_cheats/

Excellent exapmle of what I'm talking about there..

You've got a bunch of commentators at the bottom arguing about benefit claimants provoked by skewed government fed information.

Then this :



And no it didn't just 'come from the government'. The government initiated contact. Big difference.